Can Demons Work Without Angels?

I’m interpreting it as it’s written.

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Yeah man the black and white is pretty clear. And while I respect the author and the method he’s encouraging I would simply say that’s not been my experience.

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The 72 are fully operational and able to perform charges to satisfaction WITHOUT angelic supervision.

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your quote of
"It basically says demons are useless and can add no intelligence to a request without angels "
is not what the books says. that’s one’s own interpretation. i didn’t get the same message.

I don’t think demons would like to hear that of them either. lol.

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That is kind of what it’s saying…it’s saying too that were weakening the effect of the 72 to use them without direct angelic supervision and I’m sorry but I flatly disagree with that assertion.

Now poke runyon would say I’m wrong and that’s fine. He can do it his way that works for him and I’ll just keep doing it the way I have been.

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that’s not how i understand that part. he’s saying that others think it weaken demons if one use angels. he’s saying it don’t make spell weaker but can help it more.

he’s trying to convince readers to try this process out as is before judgement.

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okay? that was based off memory from something I haven’t read in years. Then I was questioned on it and opened it to provide the exact quote. I’ve provided the black and white quote as it’s written and not tried to justify the cognitive dissonance of the contradiction.

You’re the one trying to fill in “what the author means” rather than reading it as it’s written.

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Ok I see what your saying and it’s quite possibly true that using the Shem angels does in fact help it to succeed better many Magicians I know use the DOMs method and report great results.

I’m just saying I’m not doing it that way and I’m still getting the results I need.

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well, he did say you can experiment but to give the written process in the book a go before dismissing it.

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i literally have those exact words from the book . its in front of me.

you interpret however you want. It don’t make sense to have contradicting messages in my understanding. I choose the ones that make more congruence. As magick isn’t about contradiction other wise it won’t be successful.

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@Lady_Eva please split this topic from post:4, topic:143681

To a new topic please.

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It’s a contradiction I think should be debated but I think the OP’s post has been derailed by debate so I asked for it to be split into a new post.

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To be frank if I learned evocation and the employment of the 72 Goetics from Dom that’s exactly how I’d be doing it. I. Tempted to try it just because of my admiration and respect for poke runyons ota method.

But I didn’t learn to do it that way and I don’t want to lose the momentum I’ve built now.

I’ve found the 72 will respect you and carry out your charge without being forced into compliance by the Shem angels.

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Yeah you’re right man we should discuss this in a more appropriate thread.

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Done. :+1:

@anon37593562 it’s over here now. :smiley:

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Thank you very much.

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Yeah thx :+1:

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all the books of gom have different process for each book. i don’t mix at will. for safety reasons. when i do magick. i look at which process should i do as they have different flavor. the other magick book don’t use this method. the one with angel and demon use different method. i keep the process pure to it’s book.

If i want to be creative. than that would be 'chaos magick ’ process.

I distinguish the process. many people lump everything together. that’s where trouble comes.

some of the other magick book don’t use angels. it goes straight to demons.

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There’s nothing wrong with that. If you’re satisfied with the results you’re getting keep doing it that way. And for the record it may well be safer to do it that way

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Ok I can see what you’re saying.

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