Bokor Elmera on E.A

Greetings to All,

 Several months ago I was on the hatian vodoo portion of this forum and someone (can't remember who) suggested on checking out a channel on youtube by the name of 'Bokor Elmera'.  Not knowing much on the subject of voudon and voodoo, I decided to subscribe to it and watched over a dozen video postings of his to learn about the basic idea of the voudon practice and the many aspects that surrounds it.  
 First off, Bokor Elmera is very exciting when he's talking and very down to earth when he speaks of the material and it seems really approachable, along with being knowledgeable of the subject matter (at least from what I can tell).
 Apparently yesterday though, Bokor Elmera produced a video pertaining to E.A. and was critiquing the system that he has developed.  I definitely wanted to hear what Bokor Elmera had to say, yet the moment when he made the statement of "...when white people get sensantionalism about metaphysical things...etc" it really just undermined his whole critique of E.A.'s material.  Sure, E.A. has some aspects of sensationalism and flare about some of his products and services that he offers, some I agree with and some I don't but when that is your first and apparent focal point right outta the box when you critique someone, it doesn't really set you up for a solid argument as to why E.A. is a clown or a fool (can't remember exactly what B. Elmera said but anyways)...
 I'm sure that I could make a video response to some voudon ritual done in some Haitian home and say "...wow those voudon practitioners do some crazy shit, they draw these symbols with corn meal...that's so cheap and wretch,...and look at that chicken that they are 'sacrificing'...do they eat it afterwards?  Is this sanitary?"
  As you can see, I could draw alot of conclusions about said religion or religious practice and NOT do my research or read any material pertaining to said religion and make some pretty stupid and uneducated conclusions.  I believe that Bokor Elmera stated that he hadn't really looked over or seen any of E.A.'s material or read his books...
  Towards the end of the video (at 9:52) Bokor Elmera does a complete 180 degree turn and says that "...if you can't attack someone and dissect their argument thoroughly, then I think you're a weak person..." etc...Ummm...wait a second pal, you just torn into someone without thoroughly dissecting their argument at all and started this whole video straight outta the gate by saying that 'white people sensationalize' the esoteric and occult subject matter.  So which is it?  You dog on E.A. cause he's some ignorant white dude talking about metaphysical stuff, or do you dissect an argument thoroughly for the subject matter, and not base it on someones skin color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCjADneCsh0

I have come across the occasional criticism of koetting. here’s why I disagree with these people - and do keep in mind, I’m a bit iffy on the subject of magic, but I still find it fascinating, and there’s always that one odd story one hears occasionally about how some one did some thing involving magic, and then some thing, coincidentally, per haps, but spooky and eerily timed none the less, happens, seemingly as a result of the ritual or what ever:

some people criticize koetting because they seem to be under the impression that he’s gone and made up his own system of magic. but it seems to me that lots of people do this; they mix and match different forms of magic from different peoples, cultures and areas of the world, and according to them, it works well for them.

and voodoo and voudon are a mix of african tribal magic and “christianity”; in fact, lots of peoples who have been infected with “christianity” mix their own long-held beliefs with these middle eastern beliefs that are completely foreign to them.

experimentation with magic has been going on since people were first aware of such abstract concepts; and if no one played around with new ways of doing things, including magic, we’d still be practicing magic the same way our ancient ancestors did. no “system of magic” would ever have been developed, no new gods would have come to be known.

for example, the romans borrowed heavily from the greeks; the greeks most likely borrowed their gods from some other group or groups of peoples, and so on down the line, changing these gods and their stories, and their ways of doing magic besides, along the way.

no one points to the ancient romans and cries, “THAT’S not how you worship the gods, THAT’S not how you practice magic!”

same thing with the egyptians. they didn’t just wake up one day with a whole pantheon of gods and a system of magic all ready to go. they developed these things over time, changing, adapting, borrowing, editing, omitting and fine-tuning until they had their gods, the gods’ stories and their particular form of magic and prayer.

so why does koetting get criticized for doing what people all over the world have been doing for centuries - changing and adapting and refining the way magic is done, and coming up with his own way of doing it?

magic is like any thing else - you can do with it as you like, shaping it, forming it, melding and melting and mixing it and folding it in to other forms of magic. people have ALWAYS done this.

and for a voodoo practitioner to go criticizing some one else when his own magic is a blend of african tribal magic (and probably from different tribal peoples at that, each with their own distinct customs and magical traditions) and “christianity”, is hypocritical.

Wow, pretty sure he literally just deleted it after I watched it. He basically argues that Koetting cant know anything about petro voodoo because he is white. And that his practices (as well as the practice of scrying and evocation to visible appearence)have no grounding in practical spirituality. He provides some evidence for the first point, and none for the latter.

He consistently mispronounces scrying and “Koetting” and I dont feel that he had read any of EA’s material.

It is likely that EA has no actual grounding in Voodoo. This is according to my own research and heavily contrasting the contents of the Spider and the Green butterfly against historical sources on voodoo. Baron Deprince seems to be little more than a con artist as well. EA has admitted to being involved in drug use during the time of writing TSGB, and likely wrote it to make a little side cash. Who really cares seeing as how voodoo doesnt seem to have done much for Hatians post- revolution.

This video further illuminates Elmera’s own lack of knowledge concerning the Western Mysteries and his bias against spiritual systems originating in the West. (Sad because the rest of his info is good.)

No. The poorest country in the Western Hemisphere as well as the voodoo capital of the Western Hemisphere, it doesn’t seem to be doing much for them at all does it except perhaps providing an escape from the reality of their abject poverty. It’s like all those “powerful” magicians who for some reason don’t have the potency to “manifest” their rent money.

Thanks for writing that! fk I hate unneeded racial shit! As it is, I was hoping not being in whitey is righty bigotpsychotown missouri would allow me a chance to have Masonic dealings with the PHA’s. but I am kinda getting an uncomfortable feeling that under all the feigned “We are all Brothers on the square…” foam-- there is more than one reason I have yet to see any Unwhiteys in the lodge I am working to Maybe join here in tennessee. i wish at times I could get away with just capping every person being an asswhole whitey is better bullshit- or we should have our own shade of whatever playpen. sorry- you just hit me on a day i was already screaming inside about this shit. did the past suck enough so we don’t have to drag this sack of shit into the future with us? gggr. love you-all, may I always be an enemy of this shit, sorry, stop button is jammed

[quote=“waltyrs, post:1, topic:6615”]Greetings to All,

 Several months ago I was on the hatian vodoo portion of this forum and someone (can't remember who) suggested on checking out a channel on youtube by the name of 'Bokor Elmera'.  Not knowing much on the subject of voudon and voodoo, I decided to subscribe to it and watched over a dozen video postings of his to learn about the basic idea of the voudon practice and the many aspects that surrounds it.  
 First off, Bokor Elmera is very exciting when he's talking and very down to earth when he speaks of the material and it seems really approachable, along with being knowledgeable of the subject matter (at least from what I can tell).
 Apparently yesterday though, Bokor Elmera produced a video pertaining to E.A. and was critiquing the system that he has developed.  I definitely wanted to hear what Bokor Elmera had to say, yet the moment when he made the statement of "...when white people get sensantionalism about metaphysical things...etc" it really just undermined his whole critique of E.A.'s material.  Sure, E.A. has some aspects of sensationalism and flare about some of his products and services that he offers, some I agree with and some I don't but when that is your first and apparent focal point right outta the box when you critique someone, it doesn't really set you up for a solid argument as to why E.A. is a clown or a fool (can't remember exactly what B. Elmera said but anyways)...
 I'm sure that I could make a video response to some voudon ritual done in some Haitian home and say "...wow those voudon practitioners do some crazy shit, they draw these symbols with corn meal...that's so cheap and wretch,...and look at that chicken that they are 'sacrificing'...do they eat it afterwards?  Is this sanitary?"
  As you can see, I could draw alot of conclusions about said religion or religious practice and NOT do my research or read any material pertaining to said religion and make some pretty stupid and uneducated conclusions.  I believe that Bokor Elmera stated that he hadn't really looked over or seen any of E.A.'s material or read his books...
  Towards the end of the video (at 9:52) Bokor Elmera does a complete 180 degree turn and says that "...if you can't attack someone and dissect their argument thoroughly, then I think you're a weak person..." etc...Ummm...wait a second pal, you just torn into someone without thoroughly dissecting their argument at all and started this whole video straight outta the gate by saying that 'white people sensationalize' the esoteric and occult subject matter.  So which is it?  You dog on E.A. cause he's some ignorant white dude talking about metaphysical stuff, or do you dissect an argument thoroughly for the subject matter, and not base it on someones skin color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCjADneCsh0[/quote]

No. The poorest country in the Western Hemisphere as well as the voodoo capital of the Western Hemisphere, it doesn’t seem to be doing much for them at all does it except perhaps providing an escape from the reality of their abject poverty. It’s like all those “powerful” magicians who for some reason don’t have the potency to “manifest” their rent money.[/quote]

YES!!! Thank you for saying that!! I mean for reals, I hear about how many practitioners wield the power of the ‘universe’ yet can’t seem to make ends meet or have a solid and nutritious meal. I mean, come on!! If you can’t use your sorcery to manifest the pragmatic things in your life then how can you expect to ‘ascend’ to some higher spiritual path or mystical enlightenment???

Yup!! I just tried to view the video again this afternoon (2:00 pm MST) and its gone. Ya see, I don’t get that and that kinda makes Bokor ELmera look even more suspicious.

EA once said that one thing most people don’t realize in the occult community,when attacking him and his work,is that they’re not working against each other,they’re working together.

He’s addressing all the naysayers,and haters,and trust me,there are a lot of them.Our long-term goal,at BALG is to make access to incredibly powerful magic accessible to as many people as is possible.

All of these magicians who are teaching all of these things online are doing the exact same thing.

They may be more humble,less flashy in advertizing,or simply less successful at it all,but their goal is the same as EA’s.

With that in mind,no one is enemies,then.If all information is out there,meant to be used by me,and you,and Eric,and everyone wants it out,and no one wants it restricted,then why would small differences in experiences keep us from being allies?

The Church we seem to universally loathe and fight against has split itself many times over simple matters of ideology,and that hasn’t improved for them.

If this guy’s video gathers enough attention,then it is going to catch EA’s.If he deems it has even a shred of validity to it,then he will send out a request for a debate or interview with bokor Elmera,after,of course,checking out what he can about whether he’s legit or not.

If EA deems him OK,and Elmera accepts the invitation,then EA is going to conduct a good debate with him,and they will compare notes on what they learned in Vodoun.Even if they can’t fully reconcile,the strong connection all Vodoun practioners have is enough to cause many shared experiences.

Remember his debate with Astrid?She said that the true magician should be using both white magic and black magic.EA was telling us that black magic isn’t necessarily malevolent,it’s just been hidden,and the magic that comes to humans most naturally.The two came to some brilliant agreements and similarities.

Why not do the same with this petty hater?

They are eating mud to stay alive in Haiti. I think the problem is that they put the spirits above them and worship them.

According to the information I have received the state of Haiti is a deliberate action on the part of the loa due to reasons… So yeah the loa are pretty strong, they brought a whole country to its knees and kept it there for a good long time.

Care to share the reasons?

Yeah Defectron, that is pretty much an unsubstantiated claim unless there is some reasoning presented with why you may feel that way.

Naw,I’ve said it before if a spirit I’m on good terms with tells me not to give something away, unless I have a good reason I’m not going to do so. The reasoning behind why the loa would do this, very much falls into that catigory. If you really want to know you can ask them yourselves and see if they feel like talking. Of course some people get upset when I say stuff like this without going into further detail, but I don’t care, I post stuff on the internet because I get bored when I’m working on other things on the computer and thats the only reason. If what I say helps you find something out then good for you, and if not oh well I don’t really care.

Troll succesful, Defectron. Troll succesful.

Seems to me any spirit can shrug and say “It was a test” or “It was part of my grand plan” but that’s effing useless to the humans on the ground.

It’s not breaking news that spirits sometimes lie, sometimes for a higher purpose but often as not to cover their wispy asses and stop them being questioned too much, so they retain the upper hand and that air of all-knowingness…

Vodoun is primarily a religion that ‘happens’ to practice magic, it is not a cult for power although many will be drawn into it for these very reasons. Through the connections I had in the late 80’s to early 90’s, I practiced a form of Vodoun (uninitiated) but under the guidance of the loa through a ‘self-dedication’ I had with them. This was in the period of (1991-1993). I must admit that it was the first time I ever experienced close encounters with spirits and their influences around me on a daily basis.

I will not lie here, the loa can ‘and are’ magnificent teachers of wisdom and this can range from practical applications of street wise strategies to higher enlightenment depending on your intentions. They taught me the foundation to money making and remnants of this was posted about here. They also showed me many true ways of ritual giving and receiving (our offerings & spiritual guidance). I viewed them as holy fathers but as time went on, they seemed to take over my mind?

The word Vodoun (pronounced Voor ‘as in door’ - and ‘doun’ is simply dun) is an ancient Dahomey expression meaning god. Its more deeper connotations however mean to ‘Serve’ and this is the point I’m coming to. Vodoun (in my honest experience) is the service of the spirits and means to honour them, which is its main current or direction it follows.

As time went on with the spirits, I knew they were leading me, but this also escalated towards dictating and bullying on occasion which I will not tolerate and because of my strong will or dominance, me and the loa fell out for good! Theres a strong flow of energy here to do as you are told ‘or else’ and because I went against this the loa told me to literally fuck off, which resulted in me losing all interest in the occult for many years after that.

You will notice that these practices thrive in under-developed places where there’s a distinct lack of education and insecurity, not to mention a complete wave of vulnerability within the population in general. This of cause allows that main current of the religion to grow very well indeed as it would never take off in places where the people are more confident, ambitious and progressive (I doubt there’s little voodoo practiced in Dubai for example).

Cuba, South America, and many Caribbean Islands along with a distinct lack of stable political influence, are engrossed in religions which control them! These people truly want a better life and are in need of help but within this type of environment, it’s just an impossible situation. The vulnerability here makes it quite easy for the Houngans and Mambos to recruit psychologically disturbed people so they can feed off them in many ways. Haiti and other countries similar to this are extremely unstable through spiritual crimes and the general political regimes within the country.

I don’t wish to criticise the true meaning of the religion or its many variants such as Palo Mayombe, Obeah, Santeria, Candomblé, Umbanda and Quimbanda etcetera…

These practices are ancient and very pure indeed, they should be given total respect with regard for their true nature. The individuals wishing passage into them however should be educated as to what they really are all about, and not given the impression that they are some easy way to power and wealth, which is the usual deluded expectations of many of its initiates, and this doesn’t just happen close to where its practised either > many are under the Spell of Voodoo and are lured in from all over the world as it seems to have a powerful magnetic pull!

After all…it only costs $1000 to get initiated by a competent Houngan, they even do complete package deals these days to the islands and back, with easy payment plans!!

I would love to see these religions undergo a complete spiritual sanctification to take then back to their true identity but I’m afraid, this is a mere pipedream for now because of the selfish and arrogant motives of many, who simply use it as a vehicle to manipulate vulnerable people. To know thyself is a powerful force indeed, my advice would be to wield that sword of power and control the spiritual forces, or they will or could quite easily control you. Black magic is certainly one path which allows this to happen but in my experience…

“We must steer our own ship” - or it will sooner or later crash into the rocks

let me just put my funny mask on and say that, since the conception of the become a living god movement, i was koetting fanboy and will be forever
but my first asociation was becoming a living douche because i love south park so much…

it’s all chaos

Eric’s sensationalsim and drama prove the Paradox

everything proves the paradox

Eric helped me, with his methods, to achieve Enlightenment. for that i shall forever remain Koetting fanboy eternal no matter what.

yeah it’s douchey. but remember, our whole western culture is retarded.

re tar ded

Savo great post, if I could like it twice I would. Very congruent with my own UPG, research, and even Elmera’s own warnings about how quickly his own spirits will turn on him if they are not fed.

I also agree that the demons are not above manipulating and misleading even serious allies for their own purposes. This goes for spirits of the dead as well who become particularly pissy if neglected unfortunately.

Same here!

I also agree that the demons are not above manipulating and misleading even serious allies for their own purposes. This goes for spirits of the dead as well who become particularly pissy if neglected unfortunately.

Don’t we all act a bit like that though? Needy if we feel someone who loved or needed us is turning away, or if they’re suddenly more into someone new… even more so if we kind of rely on them in some way for some vital thing, like the love and attention spirits get from us.

I don’t think I’m a jealous person but when that’s happened to me it’s really hurt in the past and usually prompted sheet after sheet of whiny self-pitying journal entries, and you can’t just expect them to move on and “get a life” - literally not the latter!

Dead people can’t just go on meetup.com and find a bunch of new friends to hang out with, it must be an awful feeling to see people turning away and neglecting your needs, more so if they’re family and you watched them mourn and swear they’d never get over losing you - it must be horrific.

I dont know if this is the case for demonic spirits, but what I assume to be an ancestral spirit showed up in my dreams last night and informed me that when someone dies they are initially conscious and aware in the spirit world, they can experience pleasure and pain. If they are not mourned, given attention, or offerings than they experience what is the equivalent of starving to death, and die a second a death, a very deep sleep that they can not rouse themselves from. It is peaceful but also oblivion. If a descendant down the line starts preforming ancestral venerations over a period of time the dead who have “fallen asleep” are re-awoken and they become very upset should they be driven back into the dark so to speak.