ATR Lineages

:wink:

If it works for you great. I can speak of is Palo because that’s all that I know. Every Palero will tell anorher Palero that there ceremony wasn’t done right. Every lineage of palo will talk shit about the other one. They all do things some what the same with suttle. differences. My lineage is Kimbisa con Mayombe. My friend is scratched into briyumba Mayombe. I helped him feed his Siete Rayos a goat and they do the shit a alot more different then us. In the middle of the ceremony I would stop him to be like aren’t we supposed to do this? I stopped him like 3 times to be like hey aren’t we supposed to dot his next? The whole time he was looking at me like I was crazy. I was like aren’t we supposed to sing these songs? He was like oh we don’t sing any songs. Singing songs while sacrificing is a big part in my lineage. There is a song for everything. As far as Montenegro goes. I never met the guy. I read his books on Palo. Like I said every house does everything differently but as far as the way that I learned his books were way off. Like not even close. Plus Palo is supposed to be a secret. So any book you read on it. You have to question. Plus you can’t be Gay. Montenegro is openly Gay. Wich is good for him. But you can’t be gay and practice Palo. It’s a mans religion.!!! Anybody that’s scratched feels very strongly about no gays. I don’t respect any lineage of palo that will violate their traditions and scratch gay people. I don’t mean to offend anyone but that’s the way it is.

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well, when you’re gay you’re dealing with quite lots of men. Lol

seriously, how would you compare the 3 mains ramas (Palo, Brillumba, and Kimbiza) ?

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I don’t know about the other lineages. I know a decent amount about Kimbisa. But I don’t really respect Brillimba because all the gays I know that are scratched in that Rama. I went to a Brillimba druming and 3 gay guys supposedly got possessed by there Muertos. I guy I don’t know if he was fakeing. But 2 were full of shit. So one guy that gets possessed by his Muerto. He was walking around in his sneakers. Any Kongo that mounts someone the first thing they do is take off thier shoes. They didn’t wear shoes when they were alive. So the first thing they do if they’re a man is take off thier shoes and shirt. They’ll be like what the fuck is this? We were at a palo druming so the spirits that mount are Congo. But 2 of the guys that were men were mounted by women spirits. This isn’t spirit ismo sense or 21 divisions where a man can be mounted by a women and vice versa. The one guy that was completely full of shit starts trying to talk to me. Asking me if I know someone by the name of so and so. That’s wrong right there a real Muerto will tell u so and yo look out for him. They talk in riddles but and they’re going to tell you, not guess Abd try to read you. They will tell you things that only you know. It will make you say damn this shit is real. There’s no way they could know that. I’m not dissing on any lineage. Because it would be ignorant of me. I’m just telling you facts. I know my line is the real deal. Kimbisa was started by Andre Depit One of the most legendary Paleros that ever lived. Not only that but Kimbisa and straight up palo Mayombe are the only branches of palo that can be traced back to Africa. Theres a lot of scam artists out there and im so lucky that my Muertos brought me to the real deal and the right people. By the way your not going to find a real Palero online or advertising. It’s a secret. The spirits bring you the people that need help. You don’t have to advertise. You don’t live off of your religion. It’s not a business. I don’t look down on people that advertise and try to promote thier Magic services. Other wise I’d be a hypocrit for being on this forum. But in palo and Ifa that’s the way I was taught. What I’m learning you will never find in any books. You learn from your godfather. I don’t know shit.

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Yup, what jaysalamone said. The books are wrong either by design or ignorance. They don’t include the key aspects of the ceremonies they describe which you would only know are missing based on having actually been through them. You don’t learn Palo from a book, only from your Padrino and only after you are cut into the religion. I, too. was blessed by my muertos in regards to Palo.

I have to say this too. I give all you guys on here so much credit. I didnt have the balls to do an evocation until I was scratched because I knew I had my muertos to protect me if something went wrong. Im a pussy but I know Ive got my muertos to back me up. So I’ll stand up to anyone because I know theyre always with me. If I wasnt scratched I never would have attempted an evocation. Since I’ve been scratched I have changed. I’m fearless. I like evil I invite it.

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Andre Petit you mean

Kimbisa share with Haitian vodou its syncretism with Christianity, using Saint pictures to depic spirit. I think you also use crucifix, right ? Something which is a big no no in Mayombe.

Where is located your munanso ?

Yeah your right. My Munanso is in Philadelphia. Thats where the scbv comes from. I know some of my god brothers have the crucifix in front of his Prenda. My Padrino has one. But some of my god brothers dont. I think it al depends on how religious you are. My god parents are dead set agianst working with demons. I could never tell them that I do. I dont think its a big deal with the muertos because they have never told them anything about me. And my godparents know everything befor i tell them. You sit in front of the prenda and my padrino will be like tell me about so and so. Why have you been wanting to go into the cemetery? you went to the river last week. Meanwhile I never told them anything about it. The muertos tell them. Thats why I never do anything that I want to hide from them because they will know.

Is the initiation violent ?

How did you feel after being scratched ? Is there some before/after noticeable feeling ?

There are still some books which can be useful about Palo. Not especially about specific practices since it is munanso dependant, but about the Kongo people’s thought process and tradition. Vodou is another shit however, and I’ve yet to find any useful book.

Serell, could you recommend some sources/literature on Makaya?
I’ve read a bit about it but it all sounds extremely confusing. I’ve read that they serve some specific lwa that aren’t served anywhere else and that the nature of the spirits they serve is more “hot” in general. And there is also conflicting information on initiation and some say that Makaya is a secret society.
Is there any publicly available information on it and on lwa they serve that could clarify this matter?

Thanks, I wrote to granchemin and hopefully he can give me some clarification.
I’ve heard people talking a lot of shit about Mambo Racine and I know that she (or someone on her behalf) sells these “all inclusive” initiation trips to Haiti and I know that some people even from where I live now went there to get it(or so they claim). But I think it’s something like you said when people are lead to believe something that is not entirely true. I can’t say anything negative about her initiates since I didn’t care enough to verify whether or not certain people were indeed initiated by her.
I might be wrong but I believe that the spirits will lead you to the right people if that’s something you are supposed to be doing but you have to seek actively as well.
I just found it interesting because I am mostly in contact with spirits that are considered to be “hot”.

I might be wrong but DB’s vodou seems more like a UPG than anything else. I don’t think he’s been properly initiated.

As about Makaya, I’ve been taught that when you’re an outsider there’s just no way you can become a Makaya.

[quote=“The Eye, post:9, topic:5344”]Is the initiation violent ?

How did you feel after being scratched ? Is there some before/after noticeable feeling ?[/quote]
It’s a little violent but the spirit takes all the pain for u. I didn’t feel anything. Strangely enough I was bruised after wards for a week but felt no pain. I love being scratched. I made music for years but never did anything with it. Now I have a record out that’s on iTunes and Beatport. I owe that to my Muertos and Ifa. Since I’ve gotten scratched I don’t accept things the way they are. The next day after being scratched I had this uncontrollable urge to make music. I know that I shoulnt use palo as a crutch. But it’s what I needed for me. I know no matter what my Muertos have my back. they will help me accomplish anything that I want in my life. I just have to decide. I love my Muertos. They are my family. They don’t ask for much but I always put them first. I am so grateful for everything they do for me. Some times what they do takes alittle time and doesn’t happen as fast as I want but they have never let me down!!! Humans lie and go back on thier promises but I know if they tell me yes they will do it no matter what.

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Will be scratched in late summer and will join a Mayombe Munanso. Thanks you for your insights.

I was not aware Frisvold even wrote a book on Obeah. Thats actually pretty cool.

How is it that he finds the time to write so extensively on all these different traditions, while I’ve been practicing a single tradition for years and I feel as if I’ve barely scratched the surface? Maybe I’m slow…

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Actually I was thinking the same thing. Quimbanda, Ifa, Traditional Craft, Obeah, Palo Mayombe, American Conjure, etc etc Im not saying hes not legit, but I do find it odd that he claims initiation and adepthood in them all. Its like you said, and this especially applies to ADRs, it takes years of training and even then the rabbit hole just goes deeper. Plus ADR initiattions involve permanent cohabitations with spirits and serious devotion to them as well as ensouled fetishes and all sorts of altars and things that must be tended on an almost daily basis, so he would need to find time for that too. Its like saying you got your black belt in Sysztema, Wing Chun, Kepap, and Kali Silat all in the same short period of time. Just doesnt make sense…

Speaking of lineages I thought it pertinent to add to the conversation:

Beware of people that openly tell you that they belong to a secret society in Haitian Vodou, especially a society of the Bizango persuasion. Bizango rites hail form the Congo region and are very different than what most see as being Vodou which is commonly called “guinea”. Secret societies and there admission are so secret that generally you do not realize you are involved with one until you are initiated into the society. Bizango rites are so feared and reviled that few people that practice it will even hint that they are involved because they would risk be run out of town by their neighbors.

By and large secret societies are gradually fading from the lime light in Haiti as people move towards guinea Vodou. I have on good word that most of the elder Sanpwel that have passed on did not pass on much of their rites. Most of the information that i have heard muttered in private conversation as being secret magical formulas of the Sanpwel is actually common information among most trained houngans and mambos. However, to an outsider that has little knowledge of the system that knowledge can be used as a lure to be brought into their society or simply be taken advantage of.

Be careful of folks claiming to let you witness a secret ceremony as an outsider as you may be brought into that ceremony as victim for some messed up rite. If a person is practicing guinea Vodou and claiming to also be of a Bizango society turn and run. Bizango is not guinea, and no self respecting houngan would admit to being both because it is a huge taboo.

Don’t buy into lures of power that one group claims to have over another by their rites. You’re power in Vodou comes from your relationships with your spirits. I know an houngan that can work heavy magic with just a glass of water, so much for complex secret rites! Remember, native Haitians often see foreigners as sources of income and charge them exuberant amounts of money for a title. Titles in Haitian Vodou are meant to be earned and not purchased. Also, get to know long time foreigners involved in the house, are they successful? Do they seemed relatively balanced? If they are saying they only feel right in Haiti that should be a red flag as there are societies that put djabs posing as lwa in the heads of foreigners to keep them returning to Haiti to spend money. Any priest or mambo may spend weeks, moths, or even years before deciding to initiate you, and generally that is preceded by a training wherein you learn to work with your esko and ancestors.

Buyer beware, or you will only have yourself to blame.

Just like the mob, if theyre really in it theyre not gonna tell you ]:slight_smile:
I totally agree. That stuff is so secret they even have passphrases and physical salutes like masonry to identify one another from different houses. People live in mortal fear of the LouGarou and their sorcery Granchemin is right, theyd have some witch hunts going on of anyine suspected to be involved. Plenty of “Bokors” or “Dark Voodoo priests” here in the US but you mention Sanpwel and they shit their pants. Like some corner dealer who’s really cocky finding out you know people in the hat.