When working with evocation, do you consider it acceptable to ask whatever spirit you are evoking to show you some sign of their presence, or of having heard your call to come? I completely understand that at first most of us will end up at first working without a clear vision or anything at all, or the ability to actually hear it’s voice as anything easily discernible from our own thoughts. It seems perfectly practical to at first simply ask it to show it’s presence in some way, bang on a wall, flash the lights off, etc. On the other hand though could a spirit actually find such a request offensive, downright silly, or beneath it?
I think it’s more important and useful to ask for results, solid measurable things, not “lessons” or “tests” or “well you see this is why you shouldn’t have wanted this in the first place” because that’s the kind of bullshit whereby the spirits, in their non-material realm try to foist their values upon you, or maybe they’re simply giving the brush off.
Fancy phenomena during evocation won’t prove much, your mind can always find a way to wiggle out (if it wishes) and you’ll become slowly convinced that the lights flashed or the wall made a noise for mundane reasons, it was a coincidence - but when you do enough magick that gets you clear and measurable results that defy probability, then you know.
JMO.
I’ve tried asking for phenomena too… Can’t recall anything as physical happening as i requested like “could you open a fridge or closet door for a sign of hearing me”
I used to do that, ask for a sign. The more you engage in magickal workings, the more you affirm to yourself that magick is real because, if you truly did not believe magick was real, you would not continue to perform magick in hopes of obtaining tangible results. This kind of affirmation thru repeated evocations, spells, rituals, etc. serves to train your brain to recognize that which cannot be seen.
My point is that, if you keep at this, you will eventually start to see signs in front of your eyes without ever having to ask the entity for proof. If you are fully open to receiving such signs, you will at first notice small things like candle flames flickering erratically, blaring up or almost distinguishing on their own. You may hear noises like someone is walking in your room or an object has been physically hit by something. Eventually, you will be able to feel the entity physically touching you as if they too are made of solid matter.
Then comes hearing and eventually seeing the entity. But once it gets to the point where you can feel the entity touching you, if you allow it to do so, and your mind says “hey, something is in here with you”, that’s when things start to get very real and your drive to pursue magick even further will strengthen to a point of obsession as you are now being shown physical evidence of the entity’s presence. It takes a lot of mental training to reach this point as we are reconditioning the entire hard wiring of a mind that has been programmed since birth to disregard other worldly manifestations as reality but instead as myth.
Asking for a sign will do no good if your mind has not been trained to perceive the sign. The demon could give you a dozen signs right in front of your face, but if you are unable to receive them, it will seem as if nothing is happening. My advice would be, just keep at your path with an open mind and believe and everything will come in due time.
See this is what i can not understand, if the evocation course is about getting To Full Physical Appearance then one would assume that would be the goal at first, to get real proof of the entities present, at least at first so you kinda know 100% it’s real. I dunno but I’m gonna feel pretty stupid sitting there talking to myself?
And if you ask for something to happen like results for the outcome you desire how do you know it was not just going to happen anyway? ha
There are things like that which happen in my own life, like i get off with something that I shouldn’t of etc and other various things that worked out for me that I never did any evocation for, so for me i would be like well was this me or was this the spirit if I try evocation.
Dunno sounds a bit stretchy. Wanna believe it I’m gonna give it a go so we’ll see.
Yeah, we’re all just making it up and/or crazeee! 
Okay seriously:
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introduce yourself as the rules of this forum request. This is not some loopy “I sez what I want and no consequences” forum - we’re real people, studying seriously as a focused community, and trolls, gamers and users are NOT welcome. It is what it is.
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you’ve got the Mastering Evocation course, okay - what was your experience to date? What did you do, or try to do? Why are you acting like getting results is less than getting a husky Satanic manifestation, with his hairy tail out in your triangle?
Seriously, first do the intro, then post about YOUR own experiences, only then try to get meta and comment on what else goes on.
Interesting thing is that how some people claim to get all kinds of huge signs
( glasses flying to the wall, posters dropping etc… even heard a case of being dragged around by unseen force) just by" playing"with spiritism board , when i have tried the spiritism board a lot of times without any sort of activity. My “sign experiences” seem to come at sleep/in between states.
But the point is i’m surprised that some people that don’t even try that much instantly get all kinds of physical phenomena going on.
Of course succeeding results and amplified life can be taken as a sign, but we all know what kind of signs we were talking about in this thread.
[quote=“Black Flame, post:7, topic:5484”]Interesting thing is that how some people claim to get all kinds of huge signs
( glasses flying to the wall, posters dropping etc… even heard a case of being dragged around by unseen force) just by" playing"with spiritism board , when i have tried the spiritism board a lot of times without any sort of activity.[/quote]
I think those people almost believe it more… I know that sounds weird but when you wanty magick to work, you’re carrying a heavy fear/doubt that it won’t, whereas they want a nice entertaining experience but have a heavy fear/doubt thing that they’re opening a gateway to hell, to possession, and all sorts of stuff.
So both people get what they feared, because you can’t fear something without believing it’s possible on some visceral level.
At least, I don’t think that’s a complete explanation, but I think it’s possible.
[quote=“danieltw, post:5, topic:5484”]See this is what i can not understand, if the evocation course is about getting To Full Physical Appearance then one would assume that would be the goal at first, to get real proof of the entities present, at least at first so you kinda know 100% it’s real. I dunno but I’m gonna feel pretty stupid sitting there talking to myself?
And if you ask for something to happen like results for the outcome you desire how do you know it was not just going to happen anyway? ha
There are things like that which happen in my own life, like i get off with something that I shouldn’t of etc and other various things that worked out for me that I never did any evocation for, so for me i would be like well was this me or was this the spirit if I try evocation.
Dunno sounds a bit stretchy. Wanna believe it I’m gonna give it a go so we’ll see.[/quote]
What makes you think that you’re worthy to hear,see and interact with the spirit world in general, without having some kind of training?If you think that entities are willing to show you things,pop up in front of you and serve you just because you decided to,you have to change your perception.
[quote=“Lady Eva, post:8, topic:5484”][quote=“Black Flame, post:7, topic:5484”]Interesting thing is that how some people claim to get all kinds of huge signs
( glasses flying to the wall, posters dropping etc… even heard a case of being dragged around by unseen force) just by" playing"with spiritism board , when i have tried the spiritism board a lot of times without any sort of activity.[/quote]
I think those people almost believe it more… I know that sounds weird but when you wanty magick to work, you’re carrying a heavy fear/doubt that it won’t, whereas they want a nice entertaining experience but have a heavy fear/doubt thing that they’re opening a gateway to hell, to possession, and all sorts of stuff.
So both people get what they feared, because you can’t fear something without believing it’s possible on some visceral level.
At least, I don’t think that’s a complete explanation, but I think it’s possible.[/quote]
Hmm, yea… But still many of us can get magick work that they probably wouldn’t. I think they might invite some kind of entities that feed on fear ? they have actually been possessed, or then they after all… are just exaggerating .
I could get scared by seeing this phenomena too, i know even if i suddenly saw a demon on heard one on the physical word i would probably get my heart racing… so maybe it might be the mind trying to protect it self at the same time hoping and not hoping to see one… I know that i want to see and to hear, but i also know that at first i will probably get some sort of “panic” reaction because of human psyche. Unless they have an aura that makes me calm…
What makes you think that you’re worthy to hear,see and interact with the spirit world in general, without having some kind of training?If you think that entities are willing to show you things,pop up in front of you and serve you just because you decided to,you have to change your perception.[/quote]
My thoughts exactly. I have read all 3 of danieltw’s posts and he seems to be approaching magick and evocation from all the wrong angles. With that kind of thinking, he will never achieve any results until he opens his mind to believe in the work he is doing instead of doing it just to see if it’s real. I’d be careful If I were you daniel, you may unintentionally piss off an entity that is offended by the fact that you seem to be just dabbling and experimenting to achieve only proof instead of doing this with oure intentions of working with those entities and becoming a real magician.
Not being rude, just stating what seems to be obvious to me.
This seems legit. As I’m trying to perfect scrying, the biggest barriers so far have been overcoming to tendencies in myself to suppress sensory input that, essentially, deconstructs the world as I am used to view it. I’ve not a total newbie to magic, I’ve changed my life with ritual, foretold the future with divination, seen and otherwise experienced things that have been otherwordly.
Yet! A part of me, my regular everyday ego, still actively resists dealing with the naked spiritual even now, and I’m still having to make the changes in myself necessary to intentionally experience these things on the next level.
Ideally, as life goes on you experience more and more, and I hypothesise that there will always be at least a little niggling thrill of fear beneath the surface that will try to resist the next revelation. Maybe that becomes transcended later on, maybe it’s necessary to stay with you and lend that ‘visceral’ quality to the experience, but I’d say it’s definitely a real thing to consider.
In my experience the phenomena usually happens when I DON’T ask for a sign.
A heavy suffocating feeling in the room,flashes of visions of either the spirit itself or the incense changing color,later in the night visions of spirits as I drift off to sleep.Stuff like that.
Although there has been times the spirit responds when I ask for a sign.
The other day I asked for a sign and all the sudden a bug that was present in the room before was suddenly buzzing in my floor and was either injured or dying.
All doors and windows were closed.
So IMO it depends on how the spirit feels about showing it’s presence and whether or not the spirit knows you need the confirmation to continue.
MK
i’ve heard some crack sounds inside walls,closet, or even my stereo speakers.Not always,but sometimes they do that thing when they are there.
Ditto, I’ve heard that too. Either like footsteps like the floor boards are creaking or the radio static. I had my stereo turn itself on one time and it was on the radio setting which is odd because I never listen to the radio, only CDs, and it was on an AM channel, one that had nothing airing and I heard faint voices in the static, not human at all. I was not picking up on a radio signal from far away, these voices sounded distorted and other worldy like alienish. I tuned to that channel every night for like 3 months and never heard those voices again.