Ok, right, it is on the rule and reasons are reasonable so we can’t do something about that.
I dont accept any christian orginization or satanic.Anything spiritual i get fascinated by it.
Darrin,
What do you mean by that? or , Who are you then?
Im into spiritualism .New age,hindu belifes,George King and The Aetherius Society.
Check out George King and The Aetherius Society.
I never have been a religious person I dragged to church like most but never got into it. I always felt like somethings not right here. Years later I found if I need to know something I would ask my higher self. So I worship myself (my higher self) I feel it keeps me grounded and focused. I willed myself here to test and experience my own limitations in a unforgiving landscape.
Is the Society run by Draco’s or Greys?
Is the Society run by Draco’s or Greys?[/quote]
Muggles.
It’s always, always muggles, no matter where you look.
Damn them for holding our King Voldemort at bay!
I wonder which ones play the Pugsly role =)
What are you guys talking about.If you dont like new age occultism thats fine,but not everyone is like you.
Please respect other peoples path.
Religion can be pretty divided. Yes, we have have the big 3 religions that are dominating. They’re often credited to bring dogma on differentminded people, and they are pretty loud, doing so.
But there is also people from the opposite side that behave just as bad as any other religion out there. Usually when it comes to cults of black magic, Luciferians or Satanists, they can bring dogma to people outside of the cult or just doing so to gain more followers. There is always two sides of a coin and sometimes that coin can flip on either side. And, as always, there is awesome people on both sides of the coin as well.
I’ve been to church during school, which is a part of the culture, unfortunately. Never liked it much, and found it so odd when believers speaks for an entity that seems absent and probably never spoken to them in person. Yet they “forgive” or “damn” someone in his name, when doing so. If someone spoke for me like that, I would be pissed off.
I’m not into religion of any kind, but I worship two entities in my life. And they seems to worship me, too. For me, that’s balance in the right direction and I’m very confident with it. Divinity and equality. I like that and wouldn’t want it any other way.
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I don’t think, there’s any good reason blaming any religion, their gods and goddesses, or the teachings from their books. If you’re talking about the persecutions and accusses and bad acts and words and such, guys, I think what you’re talking about are the followers/believers that misunderstood the tricky beliefs and teachings from the doctrines. It does mean that the statement, “The words of the wise are hidden not from the eyes of the understanding and the knowing.”, is right about that.
So how does it make you any different from such people, who indoctrine their beliefs and reject other’s beliefs, when you do the same not understanding the circumstances.
The followers of a religion are what define that religion. It doesn’t matter if what they believe isn’t what was originally intended. One could write volumes on what any specific religion is supposed to be, but it’s all mental masturbation if that’s not how the religion is actually practiced.
So how does it make you any different from such people, who indoctrine their beliefs and reject other's beliefs, when you do the same not understanding the circumstances.
It makes me very different because:
-I do understand the circumstances
-I reject beliefs without pretending I’m right
-I am unbound, therefore, I can operate within the box, or outside of the box, as situations require. Religion offers no such choice.
There are two Main forces in this world. Those that maintain the status quo (that which is Safe or Accepted) and those work to change the world around them to their own world view (The Strong man). It doesnt matter whether its religion, politics or sex and relationships…because both forces are integral to Evolution and for life to continue on.
What I’m trying to tell on my recent comment is this:
Forget about the believers and the doctrines as being one. Ignore how they speak and how they seem to understand what’s in the written doctrines because no matter how you look at it, dogmatic believers OBVIOUSLY misunderstood what is meant to be taught by these rich texts.
I respect anyone’s privacy and view if you want to stay in a comfort zone. What I am trying to make you understand is, for the sake of being a magician, why won’t you take it as an advantage for development. I can’t see any good reason to stay away from these different old texts, pieces of torn knowledge, saying that that’s from the religion of crazy believers then seeing as if it’s written by same cazy believers.
Another thought, most of these texts were edited?
That is unquestionably right. All the texts from the past are changed- edited, mistranslated, misenterpreted…, many mistakes made- but not totally changed. The original thoughts are still there, just scratched.
I say these things because from what I’ve learned; Magicians are masters of there environment so they are intuned with it and over it therefor they are in control and not meant to be controlled. Is this not the goal for most if not all of us here? If this does not make any sense to you, just forget it.
(How does it make you different?)
I am refering to the kind of magician I specified below.
I view it this way:
•magician- claims to understand circumstances; follows only his practices and rejecting someone’s or others’ practices (written and passed from old specifically) because he was making progress, others are against his practices and yet they can’t show any progress
•religious followers- doesn’t understand anything; close-minded; just follows their religious views
So these 2 are really different yet same kind of being. They are both bound by their own beliefs. They lack understanding and proper judgement that is essensial for learning from outside sources. Both are self-centered individualists.
chef,
So I must believe then than you know what I’m talking about and that you’re not such kind of magician I am refering to.
BACK TO ALL,
So I am pleased if many here understand the subject same as how I do. I am not playing safe here or protecting some other religions. I am just concerned about how understanding and considering circumstances can contribute to progress on our goal here.
Well, if I just made a mess, let’s just put it this way then:
If you believe you’re really different and better from such religious people, having better understanding and good judgement, then test yourself. Put yourself on there situation. I have mentioned “written” above, so let’s use it in this situation. Let’s use the christian bible. It’s the best for this situation.
Read that bible. See if what you are. I’m not just saying these things and knowing nothing, so go with me.
(Worse kind will immediately think I’m just telling nonsense here and reject the idea. It’s fine, not my concern anymore.)
To those who wish to try or have read it:
•You just find it as a story/myth, theories, and useless text.
~You just read the words. You didn’t go beyond the written texts or behind the illusions of the nakedly portrayed story.
•Found something
~you’re on good condition
WANT SOME HINT:
The bible contains:
•how to soul travel/astral project
•how to contact higher self
•how to call the christian god
•the process of reaching godhood
•spells…
too much, just do it.
The bible is like a great magick book in general.
WHAT? Yes, it is. Such things are in there and are hidden through the strong suggestive pull of the story or the naked words. For those who want to know how I saw these, I’ll be glad to share.
I’ve moved this thread to the White Magick/RHP section, since we have people here who are at breaking point from having religious ideas shoved down their throats in their everyday lives, that way they can more easily avoid the topic.
Mod mode OFF, posting as usual now:
[quote="Arann, post:35, topic:6966"]What I am trying to make you understand is, for the sake of being a magician, why won't you take it as an advantage for development. I can't see any good reason to stay away from these different old texts, pieces of torn knowledge, saying that that's from the religion of crazy believers then seeing as if it's written by same cazy believers.[/quote]
[i]"What I am trying to make you understand is"[/i] - and therein lies the great voice of ALL religions - MAKE YOU believe, understand, and act as I do.
Sorry, I'm not being harsh, but it's true - there are sincere adherents of the LHP on here and you'll never catch them uttering such a phrase.
Whatever happened to putting ideas out there, and letting them stand or fall, attract or be ignored, on their own merit?
<blockquote>Another thought, most of these texts were edited?
That is unquestionably right. All the texts from the past are changed- edited, mistranslated, misenterpreted..., many mistakes made- but not totally changed. The original thoughts are still there, just scratched.</blockquote>
I agree with chef1964, this is just mental masturbation.
What do you have on these little beauties?
"Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God. " - Leviticus 19:31
"A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:27
"When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." - Deuteronomy 18:9-12
"Do not allow a sorceress to live." - Exodus 22:18
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer " - Deuteronomy 18:10
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." - Revelation 21:8
"Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance." -
1 Chronicles 10:13
"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry." - 1 Samuel 15:23
Many, [i]many[/i] more like this listed here: [url=http://www.openbible.info/topics/witchcraft]http://www.openbible.info/topics/witchcraft[/url]
Personally I have no use for a "god" that allegedly once wrote some great book of knowledge and empowerment, but than let it get overwritten with primitive desert-cult misogyny and hatred of almost every kind of spiritual freedom.
<blockquote>If you believe you're really different and better from such religious people, having better understanding and good judgement, then test yourself. Put yourself on there situation. I have mentioned "written" above, so let's use it in this situation. Let's use the christian bible. It's the best for this situation.</blockquote>
I typed a detailed description of why religions which teach that the souls of non-believers are damned are so toxic and pathological [url=http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/satanism-the-septenary-path/satan-always-the-scapegoat/msg53339/#msg53339]in this post[/url]. You don't have to agree with me, obviously, but those are my personal reasons for despising religion, especially the proselytising monotheistic religions.
<blockquote>Read that bible. See if what you are. I'm not just saying these things and knowing nothing, so go with me.</blockquote>
I've read it, both old and new testaments - I found it [i]disgusting[/i].
That evidently makes me your "worst kind" but then according to your book I should be killed anyway for being a sorceress, so whatever.
Some people and some ideas just don't sit well togerther, and I can, and DO, like and respect some Christian (and Muslim) [i]individuals[/i] based on their merit as people, without needing to force or ape any "respect" for their [i]beliefs[/i].
<blockquote>To those who wish to try or have read it:
•You just find it as a story/myth, theories, and useless text.
~You just read the words. You didn't go beyond the written texts or behind the illusions of the nakedly portrayed story.
•Found something
~you're on good condition</blockquote>
We're dumb if we didn't cut an exceptional amount of slack towards a book that advocates genocide and oppression of women, non-believers, witches, mediums, astrologers, and homosexuals - and good if we found something useful? Mkay, sounds like bog-standard religion to me, nothing to do with magick.
I could go on with this, but “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12) so whatever! ;)
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I have spent the last six years (give or take) inside the Christian religion. I am currently going to mass every week (and during the weekdays when I can) merely to keep up appearances. I still serve at Youth Group and say the right things and pray the right prayers and do the proper actions. Again: merely to keep up appearances.
Also, I enjoy many of the people there. I’ve found many friends and acquaintances. But, that said I am planning on moving cities sometime in Spring 2017 (hopefully).
Also,
[quote=“Arann, post:35, topic:6966”]Another thought, most of these texts were edited?
That is unquestionably right. All the texts from the past are changed- edited, mistranslated, misenterpreted…, many mistakes made- but not totally changed. The original thoughts are still there, just scratched.[/quote]
No, Biblical Textual Criticism is actually very sound. We have over 5,600 manuscripts of the New Testament and the first copy we have is written less than a century after the autographs (original copies).
This is unheard of in ancient texts. Do you want to which ancient document has the next highest amount of manuscripts? Homer’s Iliad with 643 manuscript. The earliest copy is written 500 years after the autograph. Plato’s writings are terrible, with only 7 extant manuscripts and with the earliest copy being about 1,200 years after the autograph.
We are 99.9% sure of what was written in the autographs and we are nigh certain that modern translations accurately reflect that. The question is not about whether the Bible is accurately translated, it’s whether it should ever be believed to begin with. That’s another matter entirely.
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Lady Eva,
Okay, I got your point on this and thanks for your comment that I can further explain myself.
I tried to explain my view but I just had failed to and made a mess in here. I think I just made myself sound as a stupid idiot and like an accuser same as what I’m viewing as ignorant people. I’ve used unpleasant words. I agree with that and I failed to see how it would come to all of you. After all, I really don’t know what ideas you have discussed before for I am just new here.
So I first want to apologise for that comment for being so indifferent and unreasonable. And, always question my words if you see me going wrong that I can see how my words appear to you, that is good for me.
So I’ll break things first and just focus on the book.
Going back to the book,
shall I say " scratch of knowledge" then for that 'cause that I cannot explain or tell much about what I am refering to as knowledge from that book. So I’ll put it that way to start from a small thing first.
Ok. Now, I’ll just view it myself that way first. So it’s true, many words from that bible are so bad. Examples are the verses given by Lady Eva. And everything in that bible makes no sense.
Sorry again about my recent comment above for I’ve just led you to the trap. I just did sound telling you to read the whole book.
Here’s how I extracted the little knowledge from that book:
At first, I really did see it that way when I have read some of the contents before. So I hate the words in there that time. But it always seem to pull me back even after studying other spiritual texts, magick books, what they call here black book, spell books,…
I didn’t think that time about the bad part of the book. So I just ignored the bad words when reading and tried to look for something new or anything I can learn from. I tried many times. If I opened the book read and can’t found something at first read, I put it away because I thought it was just me who can’t see what is behind the words.
(It was my belief that there’s something behind/beyond the texts that time.) And, another reason why I always stop reading is that I’ve seen that what they say “never read the bible yourself without the leader’s assistance” has something to say( I and my brother noticed that anyone who reads the bible for any longer gets mad or easily irritated and we’ve also experimented this on ourselves to confirm if it is real. I can’t tell why this happens).
My discoveries,
~Sometimes, I just play using the book. I used it as divination tool. I ask questions then open the book for any answers. That times, some worked and others not but I haven’t been so serious about this.
~Lately, it was last year I think, I used the book again after not touching it for a long time. I was lucky that time because that time I found my interest, electricity was cut off because there was a typhoon + all my companions in the house slept early so I have enough privacy and no distractions
During that night, i used one candle for enough light. At first I tried to do it the same as before(just read it)but it really don’t work. Next thing I did was meditation( I thought maybe I can understand if I access my higher self) I’m not sure how long I did it. I just sat there for a long time until I have calmed my myself including my mind. After that conditioning, I raised my energy until I feel enough energy surrounding me. Then, I called for the 4 guardians as they call them, waited for some time until they had shown signs that they are present. I asked them to help me cleanse my space and to guide me on accessing my higher self so that I can understand what’s behind the text or the real meaning of what I will read. I waited again after that until I felt something different.
The place became darker and darker until I can only see the candle light directing it’s light to the book infront of me. Time passed then I openned the book. Since I am not an expert of it, my access was cut several times. Therefor, I’ve repeated the tuning many times. I did this for two nights. I’ve tried to note the ideas that time while they are being uncovered but just can’t find the right words that match the ideas perfectly. I was able to note some but I can’t find the notebook where i have written them.
It just disappered.
And I don’t think that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that. The thing about spiritually charged books is that they seem to speak to people in a different manner. Christians say that because the Bible is “the living word” you can read it over and over again and always leave with a different understanding. And I have to say that I’ve experienced similar results by reading other spiritually charged books, like the Tao Te Ching for example. And E. A. Koetting talks about this same experience when reading the Book of Azazel.
That said, it isn’t necessary for our growth as magicians to need to esoterically study spiritually charged texts. Lady Eva has very strong feelings against evangelical monotheistic religions, and she has good reason, and that’s fine.
We are capable of learning all the secret knowledge of spiritually charged texts by other methods.
Cool, and no problem! 
As ashtkerr says, we all get something different from spiritual books, I even get inspired a lot by all kinds of fictional books & TV shows that riase issues about ethics, the nature of reality,. etc., I think the only area where my hackles rise is when people suggest that magicians are being ignorant by not reading the big books of the monotheistic cults, as though they’re kind of the “default” we should all return to after having our little experimentation with other ideas.
But it’s undeniable that we all find meaningful things, and ideas, in different places - I recently found a spell-working template in the (not very accurate) TV show about Tutankhamun!