I’m (carefully) considering trying to work with this demon, and I’d be interested in any accounts of your experiences with him. I considered him because of the reputation of removing obstacles from life that stand in the way of true potential, and my whole life seems to be one big obstacle by this point. I could use some good hardcore rearranging of circumstances. My concern though is that from what I understand about this spirit, he might actually be a TOO passionate and relentless about his work. I recall information from EA Koetting in the BOA, that strongly implied Ant’harratu had disbanded his employer’s entire company just to place him in a new job. If I were able to work with this spirit (It stands to reason of course that not everyone can work with every spirit, and I need to experiment a bit for myself,) I think I might panic more than slightly if my life was turned upside down and torn to pieces. I think I would have trouble keeping the faith that it can be rebuilt better if it seems I am about to lose big. One the other hand, it seems like a good lesson in tear down and reconstruction, and taking a risk for changes is exactly what I need.

I’m assuming it best not to simply let this demon lose in your life and just ask him nicely “think you can do something with this mess?” because that’s just asking him to go nuts and knock down your house with a metaphorical wrecking ball, perhaps taking half a city block with it. So how DO you work well with this being in the way of removing obstacles? Is it good or wise to make a list or something?

Also, under no circumstances do I want anyone hurt, only removed harmlessly if they happen to be obstacles. Is he a good choice to work with if I want to say “harm no one?”

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I’d word it, “Bring only gains of what they desire most to all, as fits their highest good” since he might think he’s not harming people by overturning stuff, and if you phrase it in the negative, there’s a “spirit doesn’t hear the ‘no’” theory: keeping it under their “highest good” means they won’t go crazy and run into trouble from some excess, and then if you word it only as what they “need,” well, who knows what he might think that is… that way you don’t leave as much wiggle-room. :slight_smile:

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In my experience nothing drastic happened when working with this demon.
I might be wrong because it was a while since I’ve read BoA but as far as I remember the demon did not disband the whole company to help Eric but he removed Eric from this company because it was soon to fail though everything looked fine at the moment. I think you should first of all know exactly what is that you want because if you are asking for something vague then this is exactly what u get. Lets say you tell him “I want you to bring me so and so but I don’t want you to harm such and such in the process”. Probably it also worth mentioning that you should specify what exactly do you mean by “harm”. I don’t think that you can reach any significant success by harming absolutely no one. You succeeding often means someone else failing (which i suppose is harm to that person).

You can get them promoted up and out, or they get a windfall and start a business, or whatever - I had to work through the tangles of this in my love & light days and if you go by the rule (which I think transcends morality) that all beings are looking to expand, grow, and express their full potential, it may be easier to get someone moved on (for example) by wishing them good things, because their entire spiritual “court” of ancestors, guardians, etc., won’t be battling against you.

These are general ideas and not a hard and fast “rule” and I have no problems with doing baneful work if it’s necessary, but if it’s just something I want, I tend to lean towards benevolent, I’d be a hypocrite to think I deserve the kind of power I want and mean to have, and then be petty and spiteful. :slight_smile:

I see what you mean and I suppose this is one of the many ways to approach this. I might be wrong but I think its a matter of preference. For some (like myself) it is irrelevant what happens to random people who bear no significance in one’s life. I was not talking exactly about doing baneful magick on someone who stands in your way but for the most part it does not matter to me how the obstacles are handled as long as they are removed permanently and in the most swift and efficient manner. And also (here I start rambling lol), I don’t think that promoting someone or giving them business necessarily means improvement for them and does not mean harm. It’s quite a tricky matter and your idea of improvement might not be the same for the said person and essentially you will be harming him/her one way or another. That’s just my 2 cents anyway.

I’ve had a long day, a long WEEK, and I was rambling more than a bit. Apologies. :slight_smile:

I don’t think you’re wrong, it is preference. From my perspective, if I can remove someone by asking the Multiverse to place them in a situation that benefits them more, I feel it’s what I should do. That’s my preference, and if your’s is different, that’s perfectly OK. Currently there is an individual at work whom I wish to go away. He was forced on me, and I let it be known I wasn’t happy about it, and it wouldn’t end well. He’s borderline Aspergers, has a very analytical mind and other traits that make him so wrong for the world of baking and pastry. Should I wish to remove him (and I’m actually planning it, but things are changing and I may not need to do anything but be patient) I would do it in a way that he finds employment that better suits him and makes him happier. That’s just the way I feel it should be done. As far as the idea that sometimes a promotion, etc., might not be good for someone, I agree. That’s why I phrase it like Lady Eva, and use “for their highest good and in ways that benefit them”. That way the “Powers That Be” provide the best outcome for them.

Well yeah I get it, and I understand that you believe that you are doing this person a favor while reaching your goal. But what I was trying to say is that even if you phrase it this way, there is a good chance of something not particularly good happening in this person’s life. I have no doubt that the powers can and will provide the best outcome for the person but then there is a situation when this person does not know/understand what is truly best for him/her. As the result, unless you make some additional request to provide this person with all the necessary guidance and maybe do some completely different ritual for that, then your target may misinterpret the situation and do all kinds of self-destructive things. I’ll give you a drastic example. Suppose, your target is in a relationship which stops him/her from personal growth (is unhealthy/toxic), but the person clings to it regardless because he/she believes that the partner is “the one”, some similar is going on in relation to the career (the person can and should achieve more but clings to some position). Then you do your thing and you remove this person from your workplace, then at the same time the relationship is falling apart and then obviously the person misinterprets all that and does something really stupid, since it’s a drastic example let’s say it is a suicide attempt, then this attempt failed and as the result stays forever crippled and unable to find decent employment. This kind of thing I was talking about.
Now, you might say that at least you’ve tried and it’s better than using my approach and it probably is I don’t know, but even that may lead to some very nasty consequences for your target.
For me it would take too much of effort and work (since I hate doing things half assed) to make sure that my target will end up in a better place and the ROI is too low in this case.
If I just remove this person it is still possible that he/she will end up in the better place if this way will be the best to resolve the situation.
I hope that makes more sense.

I think I’m going off the topic quite a bit now so I’ll shut up.

I understand what you’re saying, and I agree. Everything we do may have unseen consequences, it’s a roll of the dice. At the end of it all, we have to do what we feel comfortable doing, in the way we feel comfortable doing it. It’s a personal choice, therefore free of the judgement of others.

I’ve been reading over and considering your very good and interesting points. The morning I woke up with a clear and surprising thought in mind. “For the greatest good of anyone effected,” feels like the right wording to me now. the fact is I can’t know what’s best right and safest for anyone that might be subject to this rearranging. I thought just don’t hurt anyone, but how can I or anyone really define harm. There are some cases in life where a harmful thing such as loss or even illness could be the very thing to cause action leading in an eventually constructive direction. in not harming another or wishing harm and by protecting them all from anything negative I feel like we might just risk holding them back in the long run as well. So greater good seems the way to go and then I will leave that interupTion open as required.

I have made up my mind as well that I will eventually be trying to do this working. We all need to really start somewhere. I hardly just consider forever and wonder when I will be ready.

You- are allowed to ramble all you want- its like raining diamonds!!!

He’s quite powerful and will let you know it when he arrives. Things tend to get done his way more than with other entities. He needs strict instructions because he’ll go wild with no restrictions. Don’t send him on anybody you like! haha

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