Now let’s just get this straight; I’m a person who has two specific ideals. The first is that people should mind their own business and do what they would like to do in private with no worry of who might be watching. However, I also think this is best done knowing that you must also respect others to become a respected name.
That being said, I’m somewhat judgmental of the Via Sinestra. Many of the people who claim to be on this path have political beliefs that I dislike because they are encouraged to harm people similar to me, so that alone makes it hard for me to “get into”. Additionally, while I agree that we are best off confronting and working with the dark side of nature, I don’t exactly think various practices are the best way to achieve various spiritual levels of godliness. Keep in mind that I’m mainly talking about ONA when I refer to this tradition.
I also noticed that I read LHP books that encourage others to build personality and maintain a certain amount of ego while the books from ONA and related authors typically say that ego is the enemy or an illusion.
So why do some people decide to take this type of path? @TheStorm@Nyxifer I understand you guys have read up on this sort of thing. I think some of the books look interesting but what will I get out of reading them?
@SabahSnoblod Firstly, even a lot of us think the ONA is questionable. Given that, maybe it’s not best to hold them up as the glowing example of what we are about. (any ONA members just ignore me. This is NOT an attack on you).
Which practices?[quote=“SabahSnoblod, post:1, topic:21639”]
I also noticed that I read LHP books that encourage others to build personality and maintain a certain amount of ego while the books from ONA and related authors typically say that ego is the enemy or an illusion.
Ego stops us from accepting the wisdom of the Spirits and therefore must be tempered enough to allow us to be shaped by their will.
Human sacrifice. Social destruction by rioting. Terrorism by gas or bomb. I understand what they are meant to accomplish (separation of the member with society, and pushing for philosophical ideals against the status quo) but I don’t think advocation of those practices creates a stable individual.
I don’t really see it that way. Sure, when talking to spirits you should set aside some things, but ego is an identity. Unless you’re aiming for possession, it’s okay to have a unique identity during communion, what’s not okay is deciding you’re always going to be right. The wisdom of the spirits is not going to be filtered out by ego as long as you’re receptive.
Also how do you become shaped by a spirit’s Will? Is this psychological?
Stability is probably not the desired end goal of most Sinister practices in this category. Usually there seems to be something deeper driving the individual involved: an uncontrolled desire for power and dominion over others stemming from early experiences of powerlessness, an antinomian urge to rebel against the status quo that gleefully leaps off the cliff of pure sociopathy once triggered by various desensitizing situations, or perhaps even the individual’s Thanatos instinct reveling in its own dark apotheosis as it breaks free from the Shadow into full conscious manifestation. Either way, in these unrestrained Left Hand Path practices there is something fundamentally a-rational at work–something that will strain against being pinned down into a neat cost-benefit analysis of the sort you are attempting here.
In short: if you have to ask why, you are probably not the sort of person for whom these practices are meant.
Which question leads on to another question: Would any self-described (non-O9A) modern satanists publicly support the Islamic State?
1 In respect of whether someone Order of Nine Angles should support ad-Dawlah al-Islamiyah fil ‘Iraq wa ash-Sham (Isil, ‘Islamic State’, Daesh) – and similar future groups – the answer is obvious. Yes, those describing themselves as O9A would and should show such support; for, as Anton Long wrote some years ago:
We of the Order of Nine Angles do not, never have, and never will condemn acts of so-called terrorism (individual or undertaken by some State), nor do we condemn and avoid what mundanes regard as evil or as criminal deeds. For us, all such things are or could be just causal forms or causal means, and thus are regarded by us as falling into three categories, which categories are not necessarily mutually exclusive: (1) things which might or which can be the genesis of our individual pathei-mathos and which thus are the genesis of our own sinister weltanschauung; (2) things which aid our sinister dialectic or which are or might be a Presencing of The Dark; or (3) things that can or could be a test, a challenge, a sinister experience, too far for someone who aspires to be one of our sinister kind, someone who thus fails the test, balks at the challenge, or is destroyed or overcome by the experience.
For our criteria are not those of morality; are not bounded by some abstract good and evil; are not those defined by the laws manufactured by mundanes. Our criteria is the amorality of personal judgement and personal responsibility, whereby we as individuals decide what may be right or wrong for us based on our own pathei-mathos, and act and take responsibility for our acts, knowing such acts for the exeatic living they are or might be, and knowing ourselves as nexions possessed of the ability, the potential, to consciously – via pathei-mathos and practical sinister experience – change ourselves into a new, a more evolved, species of life. Herein is the essence of Satanism, for us.” Source: A Satanism Too Far
2 As for the reaction to such support – by both mundanes and self-described modern satanists – the answer is obvious: condemnation, if not horror.
In respect of self-described modern satanists, they would not dare to actually be satanic – heretical – in the real world and thus openly support something so obviously diabolical and satanic (as Daesh) because their so-called ‘satanism’ is the safe, tame, egoistic satanism of the likes of Howard Stanton Levey. So much, therefore, for such so-called modern satanists who lack the personal character to actually be heretical, antinomian, in real life, and take (and possibly learn from) the consequences of such a practical defiance. Cue, therefore, much blogorrhea and forumorrhea by such self-described modern satanists defending their interpretation of satanism and their cowardice while denigrating the diabolical, evil, O9A.
As with the screen caps posted here, you would have a hard time telling one angsty fanatic who wants to kill apostates because that’s how you get to Allah’s perfect paradise, from another who wants to do it because of some philosophical wank about becoming a super-being.
For example, from that, “to consciously – via pathei-mathos and practical sinister experience – change ourselves into a new, a more evolved, species of life” is the same rationalisation as the Islamic quest for Dar es Salam, the infinite peace of a totally Muslim world after enough killings have made it complete.
What makes this a fucking hypocritial edge-fest is that both Muslims and sinister types like to live in comfy Europeanised secular democracies, talking about their anarchist fantasies while sending their kids to taxpayer-funded schools, relying on Christian-based legal structures to keep said schools from being raided by traffickers on a regular basis, and expecting their womenfolk to able to safely go out alone, whilst polishing their poles and talking about how they’re gonna kill a bunch of weaklings and become the universe’s super beings - they are LITERALLY the archetype of the rebellious teenager having fantasies of grandeur whilst living soft in mummy and daddy’s home, with their bills paid and their food on the table.
None of them have flocked, with their entire families, to oases of freedom like Somalia or the Congo, where the cloying hand of the state and Xian morality will be far behind, where you eill rise or fall on your own ability to mete out violence, and even Muslim fighters flee those kinds of places for Europe, full of everything they claim to despise, whenever possible.
In the O9A text An Introduction to Insight Rôles, dated 119 Year of Fayen,
one of the aeonic Insight Roles is: “Convert to Islam and aid, through words,
or deeds, or both, those undertaking Jihad against Zionism and the NWO.”
Hmm. This is something I posted in another thread, but it is highly relevant to the muddle-headedness that ensues when someone embraces edginess for its own sake:
Prominent Jewish speakers, activists, and thought-leaders are against Islam’s increase in their own homeland, but not in Europe and America:
The so-called migrant crisis is, in reality, the Hooton Plan:
(From that Wikipedia page) … During the period of supervision and occupation of the several states by armies and civilian staffs of the Allied Nations, encourage members of these groups to intermarry with the German women and to settle there permanently. During this period encourage also the immigration and settlement in the German states of non-German nationals, especially males.
(75 - 80% of incoming migrants to Europe are young males of mostly military age.)
“Earnest Albert Hooton (November 20, 1887 – May 3, 1954) was a Jewish-American physical anthropologist” It’s a plan for genocide, and a Jewish author called Kaufman had called for genocide of Germans before the supposed inception of the Holocaust.
He did so in a book relatively few people know about, published in 1941 (originally perhaps as early as 1940), called Germany Must Perish, which calls for the frank and total genocide of all Germans - it’s in English archived here.
This doesn’t mince words, or focus solely on undermining culture:
[quote]Kaufman gives his readers a few chapters of spurious German history sprinkled with doctored quotes from Friedrich Nietzsche and Heinrich von Treitschke to demonstrate the hopeless depravity of the Germans down through the ages …
He concludes, with feigned reluctance, that the only way to make the world safe is to kill all of the Germans. He states this conclusion, in different words, 30 or 40 times throughout the book, just so the densest goyische reader will get the message: “… [T]he goal of world-dominion must be removed from the reach of the German and the only way to accomplish that is to remove the German from the world!” “They are but beasts; they must be dealt with as such.” “There remains then but one mode of ridding the world forever of Germanism – and that is to stem the source from which issue those war-lusted souls, by preventing the people of Germany from ever again reproducing their kind.” And so on.
… Kaufman winds up his book with a few calculations. He figures that all the German soldiers who have not been killed in the fighting before their government surrenders unconditionally can be sterilized in less than a month by a team of 20,000 surgeons, each of whom will perform an average of 25 sterilizations per day. The civilian population can then be dealt with in a more leisurely manner, over a period of several months.
After everyone, male and female, has been sterilized, the publication of all printed materials in the German language will be forbidden; the Germans will then be divided up into slave-labor battalions and marched off to work for the democratic and communist victors, where they will be compelled to learn and use the language of their new masters … with a “normal death rate of 2 per cent per annum, German life will diminish at the rate of 1,500,000 yearly. Accordingly in the span of two generations that which cost millions of lives and centuries of useless effort, namely, the elimination of Germanism and its carriers, will have been an accomplished fact.”
The author of the book is proposing a “final solution” of genocide for all German people at least one full year before the reported Wannsee conference, interestingly enough - here’s an excerpt from the text itself:
"A final solution: Let Germany be policed forever by an international armed force?
Even is such a huge undertaking were feasible life itself would not have it so. As war begets war, suppression begets rebellion. Undreamed horrors would unfold.
Thus we find that there is no middle course; no act of mediation, no compromise to be compounded, no political or economic sharing to be considered. There is, in fine, no other solution except one: That Germany must perish forever from this earth!
And, fortunately, as we shall now come to see, that is no longer impossible of accomplishment."
And if you’re familiar with the HBO movie called “Conspiracy,” starring Kenneth Branagh, which is marketed as a potrayal of the Wannsee conference, you’ll notice the script echoes the earlier words of Kaufman only too closely:
"There remains now but to determine the best way, the most practical and expeditious manner in which the ultimate penalty must be levied upon the German nation. Quite naturally, massacre and wholesale execution must be ruled out. In addition to being impractical when applied to a population of some seventy million, such methods are inconsistent with the moral obligations and ethical practices of civilization. There remains then but one mode of ridding the world forces of Germanism – and that is to stem the source from which issue those war-lusted souls, by preventing the people of Germany from ever again reproducing their kind. This modern method, known to science as Eugenic Sterilization, is at once practical, humane and thorough. Sterilization has become a byword of science, as the best means of ridding the human race of its misfits: the degenerate, the insane, the hereditary criminal.
Sterilization is not to be confused with castration. It is a safe and simple operation, quite harmless and painless, neither mutilating nor unsexing the patient. Its effects are most often less distressing than vaccination and not more serious than a tooth extraction. Too, the operation is extremely rapid requiring no more than ten minutes to complete. The patient may resume his work immediately afterwards. Even in the case of the female the operation, though taking longer to perform, is as safe and simple. Performed thousands of times, no records indicate cases of complication or death. When one realizes that such health measures as vaccination and serum treatments are considered as direct benefits to the community, certainly sterilization of the German people cannot but be considered a great health measure promoted by humanity to immunize itself forever against the virus of Germanism."
Kaufman speaks some more on this:
[quote]In an interview carried in the September 26, 1941, issue of The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, Kaufman defended his plan for the “sterilization of all Germans”:
I believe that the Jews have a mission in life. They must see to it that the nations of the world get together in one vast federation. “Union Now” is the beginning of this. Slowly but surely the world will develop into a paradise. We will have perpetual peace. And the Jews will do the most to bring about this confederation, because they have the most to gain. But how can you get peace if Germany exists? The only way to win an eternal peace is to make the punishment of waging war more horrible than war itself. Human beings are penalized for murder, aren’t they? Well, Germany starts all the wars of magnitude. Let us sterilize all Germans and wars of world domination will come to an end![/quote]
This is having a snowball effect, especially now that ALL white people are Nazis-until-proven-innocent (including those in Russia, western and eastern Europe, and America whose own families suffered heavy losses FIGHTING Hitler), but it began way back prior to the Russian revolution, it starts with teachings in their holy texts, for which you can research the term Amalekites - you only need a few influencers to believe this and it catches hold, causes paranoia, plotting, which then generates anger, and lo, the prophecy begins to fulfil itself.
Finally, before anyone gets their panties in a bunch about whether this post is anti-semitic - all it does is quote Jewish people’s own words, openly spoken to and not covertly recorded or entrapped, calling for genocide against people like me and my family.
And it is highly relevant to a bunch of edge-lords who think they’re overturning the world and making it a stronger place, when really they’re just part of the same NWO dream of a slave planet.
If it needs permission and a philosophy to take the role of the Voice of Authority, it’s really just one of these looking for an outlet:
These two experiments - the first was repeated numerous times, including with different ethnic groups and sex ratios, and came out with similar results, the 2nd deemed too damaging to pass ethical oversight - explain the reason why any religion that sanctions killing unbeleivers becomes a self-serving death cult, and also, the reason why so many people are hungry for a philosophy that permits them to unleash violence.
Every human being on this planet is born with the innate drive to kill, to commit violence, and possesses the instincts to destroy for the smallest of transgressions - it comes with the hardware, although the likelihood of acting upon it usually varies by sex and by IQ.
It’s not big, and it’s not clever.
The modern developed world is, in truth, currently going through a rather unprecedented domesticated phase, mainly due to the post-WW2 phobos around aggression.
Half the southern world is frantically trying to get into soft northern secular nations and leech on the welfare teat, while getting their kids into schools and their nanas into taxpayer-funded healthcare, and meanwhile most of the northern world is increasingly losing its mind at being told that truck massacres and stabbings are acts of peace that should spark even more unity, that kids being raped on an “industrial” scale is a cultural practice and therefore tolerated, whilst telling an adult woman in the workplace that she looks pretty is a crime worthy of life-wrecking financial and social sanctions…
This is actually happening - this isn’t being safely back in the early noughties, committing to some (pretty legit) physical and mental conditioning, secure in your little western bubble whilst fantasising about the future of ascended beings and overthrowing conventional morality.
Conventional morality is gone, kaput, in all but name - this is the new moral standard:
That’s basically what I see whenever I read about ONA. The only person I know who is a (pantheistic) Satanist inspired by ONA comes off to me as “comfy” in this respect. And admittedly as a teenager who’s still not entirely independent yet, it makes me frustrated that some people will take these expenses for granted and then act like King Universe. It’s one thing to practice potent magic that works (ahem, chaos magic and energy work) and know how you’ve progressed. ONA seems to be running a cult, although I don’t doubt thier ideas can be adapted. Their ceremonial stuff do have some occult knowledge.
I’d ramble more but honestly it’d be off topic and probably incomprehensible given how tired I am right now. I might get back to it later.
People who talk about this stuff and using it to get successful in the world always either live in, or move to, the safest most white-bread locations, and never dip a toe into the delights of the many “failed states”:
Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein
Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions
Inability to provide public services
Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community
Common characteristics of a failing state include a central government so weak or ineffective that it has an inability to raise taxes or other support, and has little practical control over much of its territory and hence there is a non-provision of public services.[/quote]
No taxes, no busybodies telling you how to live and what to think…
Tribal living in a location without the forces that so oppress the poor super-being, hmmn, wonder what a blissful communal paradise that must be…
It is not yet clear who carried out the massacres uncovered on Thursday, though the UN said that in Blolequin people from the Guere ethnic group – who are considered pro-Gbagbo – appeared to have been deliberately spared by the Liberian militias.
…There are deep rivalries in the cocoa-growing area, mainly between the Guere and mostly Muslim farmworkers whose parents or grandparents came from Mali or Burkina Faso and who are still accused of being foreigners. Liberian mercenaries have previously been drawn into the fighting, which has claimed many lives over the past decade.
And with that, I shall cease beating the piñata of darker-than-darkness with the unrelenting stick of reality.
@Lady_Eva Never heard of many Muslims having conversations with Allah so I struggle to understand how they could follow instructions they don’t receive. Also, I never said to kill anyone’s ego. Simply to not let it get in the way.
The Qu’ran is Allah’s final and perfected conversation with man, Islam means submission, and submitting the ego to do what Allah’s law tells you, when it tells you, without letting your ego decide what is best for you.
We gather from Quran that EGO is the one disastrous idol that believers must fight back and defeat (2:54.) It seems that in most of the time ego is the foundation for idolizing entities beside God (2:87, 45:23-27). http://submission.org/Ego_Mix_UP.html
What you are talking about is the exact same thing the Big Religions tell their followers to do. Submit your individual will to that of “God” or, in your case, whatever spirits you talk to. Surely, you can see that there really is no difference? You have posted many times on this forum that the “spirits” know better, and that you must do as they say. Change “spirit” to “God” and you have the basis of Christianity and Islam. “Not mine, but thine Will, be true, oh, God.” That is the subission of the religious.
@Lady_Eva This is an entity (I am talking about the JCI God btw) that so obviously doesn’t have your best interest at heart though. There’s a difference between following the advice of a good teacher and following the advice of a random thug.
@Lady_Eva@DarkestKnight Also, instructions aren’t the sort of absurd morals that the JCI comes up with. These Spirits teach how to develop powers and work towards Ascension. If one wants these things it stands to reason to follow the instructions on how to reach that state.
@Lady_Eva@DarkestKnight I would think of it as a classroom. You’ve come to learn how to do stuff and the Spirits expect that you follow the instructions so that you don’t waste their time. Also, they expect that you don’t mess up the environment for all your fellow students by screwing around and being an obstruction. Also, since they are your teachers you are expected to pay for lessons.
Like, “Do unto others in this classroom, as you would have them do unto you”?
Because that’s Christianity.
Show brotherhood to those on the same path, challenge and if necessary kill apostates, and convert or (at the very least) despise unbelievers in these great teachers, and the necessity of submitting to them?
Pay for lessons?
Judaism, and that’s not a cheap merchant jab, that is literally the covenant, to perform a certain kind of observation in exhange for that special link.
@Lady_Eva I am pretty sure the problem most of us (yes. because speaking for the entirety of the Sinister tradition is a totally good idea…) have with the JCI is not what is listed above but rather first and foremost the energies, and entities themselves and secondly the genuinely absurd things that encourage killing homosexuals, denigrating women, rape etc.