About Magick Circle

Hello I want to know this, E.A Koetting said in Universal Circle that, " The bottom line is that to start evoking spirits, you NEED a magick circle."

If I purchase the book Evoking Eternity, do I aslo need a magick circle to evoke those entities mentioned in the book ?

[quote=“inquirer, post:1, topic:4535”]Hello I want to know this, E.A Koetting said in Universal Circle that, " The bottom line is that to start evoking spirits, you NEED a magick circle."

If I purchase the book Evoking Eternity, do I aslo need a magick circle to evoke those entities mentioned in the book ?[/quote]

You don’t NEED the circle at all.

It’s just a really nice tool.
Some members have made their own circles and a couple
Have made universal circles for their own use.

The few times i used a circle it filtered the current of the entities i’ve called.It can do many things.Depends on how you want it to work,for what purpose,your role inside it and many other things.It can be just decoration,it can be your universe,your sacred place or the holy place that only you can decide who enters in and who’s not.

This thing goes much deeper than i thought

What grimoire are you using?

If this question is for me,I use koettings methods for any entity.Arbatel,Verum,Kingdoms of flame,and some other grimoires.

I meant the OP. Generally speaking, the nature of the circle depends on the system. In the Goetia for example, the names of God et al establish the operator as God with the authority to command demons.

That depends on how we define ‘invocation,’ and whether it actually means assuming the “god form.” I don’t believe that is the intention in Verum. Of course GD and its derivatives use the Bornless Invocation.

That’s why I said it depends on the grimoire. I was talking about the Lemegeton, not GV.

I don’t think the intention in the Lemegeton is to assume God’s identity.
Only in the GD rehash with the Bornless.
In the Lemegeton, the power or authority is “leased” and depends entirely upon the cleanliness of the operator.

No, it is. The Goetic circle represents the universe. The names of God surrounding the circle are the names associated with the planets. The word in the center of the circle says “Master”. You stand at the center of this imitated universe with the court of God names and angels surrounding you, just as God. You stand where the circle says the master stands.

Lol I do it ghetto style. I draw a circle in chalk on the ground

That’s a valid interpretation, but a modern one, and not all goetic practitioners would agree.
The introduction of the Grecae Magicae invocation is where this becomes more obvious.
I think a Renaissance magician might shudder at the thought that he was God, considering all the prayers and the necessary confession of sin.

Honestly, the more I practice evocation, the less need I feel for a ‘traditional’ circle.

For instance; today I went out into the woods, and drew a circle with a wooden log in mud & leaves.

At other points, if it suits the operation, I can simply perform my antecedent relaxation rite, perhaps perform an invocation of Godhood, and then simply draw the circle around me by visualizing it in my mind.

When you get to a point in your practice where you can very quickly & easily ‘slide’ into the T/G sync, thereby quieting your mind to transmit/ receive; and you have reached a point where your visualizations & ‘magical’ imagination have become juxtaposed with anything else that you deem ‘real’(such as the computer screen you are staring at), you will likely find yourself simply doing ‘lots’ of sigal magick, without finding much need for extrinsic ritual tools.

In truth I have barely any tools anymore; I believe that EA is 100% correct when he states that they are simply training wheels, or even become crutches after a time. They exist to simply put the operator’s mind into a paradigm whereby aiding him to focus his intention & will, setting his mind in harmony with the operation.

Yet, after one learns to simply ‘let go’ and focus the mind, take the plunge, caring not, knowing the power is all internal…anything is possible.

Think about it: Is there really some great power in a bag of herbs, or perhaps a dagger with a gazzillion random Egyptian symbols on it?

Or… is it more logical that the power of the living will of the operator; calmed in mind, focused with intention, confident in Godhood; makes the ritual work by him or herself?

Think about it…

But then how can it be explained that certain spirits will not cooperate without the correct correspondences in herbs and artifacts?

But then how can it be explained that certain spirits will not cooperate without the correct correspondences in herbs and artifacts?[/quote]

For precisely the same reason that people who think they’re cursed actually end up cursing themselves.

Actually, plants have power completely outside of any human will. Plants contain spirits of their own, THAT is why they work. That’s also why you’ll receive better results if you gather plants yourself and treat them with care.

Correct. That’s why hoodoo is so effective, even when used by neophytes. But you don’t have to harvest lavender on the day of Jupiter and hour of Mercury, under a waxing moon before dawn, and carve the names of 36 love goddesses into a copper dagger with green paint on the day and hour of Venus while chanting an invocation of Netzach in order to do an evocation involving a spirit associated with romance.

Yes, but Gnostic was trying to say a bag of herbs is only fueled by the magicians will. I’m not a fan of complicated ceremonies. But the tools I do use are used because they contain their ownspiritual power without human intervention, save for my scant ceremonial tools and statues. Gnostic was going along the lines of saying that the only power is on the magician, which isn’t true 100% of the time.

Well, my position is that they are tools. I’m a fan of Barrett and agrippa, who are both big on the magical properties of herbs, their alignment with the planets, etc. I have certainly gathered my own, consecrated them, etc. However without the will of the operator, I just can’t come to a conclusion that they are inherently potent. I’m saying the mind of the operator makes them potent, by his belief in them.

The magician creates his reality, existing as a subjective universe unto his own. Without him calling the spirit into his realty, does the spirit exist. Maybe, maybe not. Basically azazels answer from boa.

Btw I still use herbs and some tools, I’m just skeptical that they are very potent without me making them that way via my belief in them.

Then you are incorrect. Spirits exist totally independent of human beings. What makes them potent is their own spirit. Try to get out of this human centric model, it’s not true on the least.