9/11 Coincidence?

Three 9/11 firefighters, Howard Bischoff, Daniel Heglund and Robert Leaver died of cancer last Monday (on the same day)! What do you think?! There must be a spiritual reason for that. Too big of a coincidence.


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If I were a betting man I’d wager more people have died on the same day from breathing the toxic shit in the air at ground zero than just these 3 firefigthers, there were plenty of volunteers that will likely not have the sickness’ source credited to their demise. You’ll likely see more of it in the future now that the sickness has had time to set in. I don’t see it as any different than any other clean up crew for a major disaster like Chernobyl or Fukishima, people are going to get sick and die from the poisonous environment.

Conspiracies, in the big view, are absolutely useless. Even if they did get killed with magick, it really doesn’t have much to do with you unless you get involved in drama that won’t get solved by indulging it’s intricacies. As magicians, we gotta power ourselves up to a point where none of this stuff effects us. Now many people get to a point in development where they have reached some level they believe is incredible, and think it’s time to save to world. I have seen a 0% success rate with this endeavor, in fact it often backlashes because that level of power was often overestimated.

Honestly, I could care less about 9/11, Zionists, or whatever the hell else, because no matter what shit I would talk, I am still using all this worldly shit which is powered by - you guessed it - “them”. So what good is it to protest on a IPhone or get so involved in something that you are probably powering with your attention. These guys dying, besides it possibly just being what TWF is recalling, is not very consequential to anything that most of us are doing. So you know… it’s at best a call to get your power up… at best.

I doubt they were deliberately killed by any human parties, what would be the point? They weren’t important people. If anything maybe some death entity thought “Hey if I kill these three guys at once, maybe it’ll screw with some people on the internet.”

I agree with The1Gza, it is so important to carefully choose what ideas you align with. Nearly everything resonates and costs energy, so unless you have a very specific reason to give some fucks about 9-11 I’d say drop it as best as you can and find out what is really important to you. See it like this: if reality is a flexible affair that creates more of what you focus upon it means attention is the real currency of the universe. I’d be very careful about your focus.

If anything, we should be concerned. Those terrorists are a threat to humanity as a whole. They’ve just threatened the US, the UK, France, Australia & Canada and invited their partisans to slaughter visitors of those countries (what they’ve already started doing). They’re wreaking havoc in the Middle-East, massacred 250 Syrian soldiers and are now beheading children! All the photos and videos are online to see.

I’m not an individualist in the sense I go about my own stuff but also have a great social conscience and care about human suffering. And as I said, caring about oneself also means looking into threats to humanity such as those jihadist groups. If they had their way, Heaven forbid, NONE of us here would be able to freely practice the occult, no matter how “white” our magick could be. We’d all be FORCED to practice their own very specific religion, their own very specific branch and abide by all their rules…

Jihadist groups are even more delusional than other religions if they really believe they have a snowball’s chance in Hell of toppling the Western World, and converting it to their ridiculous beliefs. They’d have to compete with the ridiculous beliefs we already have (Christianity, aliens, Scientology, New Age, Occult, Secret Societies, scientific materialism, capitalism, etc) Sure, they could smuggle in a nuke or something and kill untold numbers of people, but all they would accomplish is putting themselves on the endangered species list. Our governments need boogymen, (Nazis, the Japanese, Communists, hippies, protesters, terrorists, etc) but, when it comes down to it, they would have no problem wiping them off the face of the earth if necessary. And they could, if they wanted to, if they didn’t care about collateral damage. We whine and cry about civilians being harmed by our troops and missiles, but, if it came down to slavery or extinction, we would scour the Middle East of all life.
They can’t fight the West; the best they can hope for is to make us scared enough that we will choose slavery and security over freedom, which, if history is any indication, is a bad bet. They are not a credible threat to humanity. Ecological disasters, and dwindling water supplies are far greater threats than groups of several hundred religious nuts in the desert. They kill more of their own people than they ever have Westerners. What they want is CONTROL, and it is something they will never have over us. We are too big, too strong, and too technologically superior. The only reason our governments even care about the Middle East is political (and economical, since we are the largest consumers of oil) They can threaten the US, UK, France, Australia, and Canada all they want. Nobody cares. They are just saber rattling. Even Iran, which is bigger, stronger, and more technologically superior than ISIS and other groups, knows it would not survive against the West.
Personally, I barely give them a thought. The 200 + serial killers currently prowling around North America are a greater threat. But, the government needs its boogymen.

I respectfully disagree: for demographic, economic and political reasons (plus our borders are basically wide open and have been for years) there are legit predictions that the UK will be a majority-Muslim nation by 2050 - I posted a bunch of stats regarding this and some other changes, including the increasing radicalisation of young British Muslims here before.

Two entire generations of native-born Brits (black and white alike, after the influx of West Indians and Indians that began just after WW2) have been brought up to believe that a university education and white collar career is the expected life-path for women, that having no children is a perfectly acceptable option, and only having one is probably best, meaning we developed a huge demographic imbalance in which the gap between the ageing population and the young working population grows each year as people have smaller and smaller families, and that in turn leads to social problems, with frail ageing people who have no extended family to care for them when they begin to be housebound.

An increasing emphasis on university education for all also meant that we have fewer native-born people willing to take on service and menial work, which is usually unrealistically low-paid and can’t support the kind of lifestyle even working class native-born British people expect to have, especially since so many are utterly in thrall to the consumer culture.

As a result, Blair opened the gates to waves of unskilled immigrants to fill the gap in our society and our economy, many of whom are Muslims, and most of them still hold the value of having large families, and are willing (having come from poorer countries) to make the financial sacrifices necessary for this.

Muslim interests already carry a significant amount of weight in the UK, and the political will to tackle this at its roots is non-existent - the ongoing revelations about the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal is ample evidence of that.

A short summary is that, at a low estimate, some 1,400 little girls, almost exclusively white, who were in state care-homes were being groomed for sex and plied with drugs and drink, and then passed around amongst groups of Pakistani men, frequently being gang-raped, trafficked to other groups, tortured and intimidated - for a period stretching over at least sixteen years.

EVERYONE in power knew, including care home staff and the police, and nobody did a thing to help these children because, first and foremost, the system is set up to assume racism is behind any criticism of non-white immigrant groups (especially Muslims), and the reality of this case - Pakistani men intentionally preying on vulnerable white girls - was seen to be so potentially inflammatory, and even unbelievable (and laid out bare, it DOES sound like a wingnut rant, doesn’t it?) that nobody felt they could step forward.

Again, don’t take my word for it, here’s several reports from a range of different mainstream media - Huff. Post, the right-leaning Daily Mail, and the usually liberal multi-cultural oriented BBC News.

People in the USA have no idea what Britain’s like right now, how bad it’s gotten primarily since Blair’s open-door policy and his Labour govt. that came into power in '97 created a cultural climate in which you do not mention race, beliefs, or anything for fear of being branded a racist and therefore wrecking your career prospects and reputation.

The increased amount of radicalisation among young British Muslims and any investigation into credible terrorist threats is simply met with more draconian losses of civil liberties for everyone else, and yet it took the UK govt. a decade and an estimated £1.7m of taxpayers money to deport radical cleric Abu Qatada. And yet, anti-terror laws rushed in after 9/11 have been used against women walking to work, autistic children, and noisy children in their parent’s garden.

The thing is this isn’t just a domestic matter for us Brits: IF this happens, if Britain becomes majority Muslim within just over a generation, the USA will have to deal with that reality and that includes the loss of one of your most strategic military allies for any future conflicts in the middle east or eastern Europe.

So it’ll affect you and your leaders, who will have to deal with reality and not wishful thinking, will be forced to kowtow to a major ally being Islamic.

If you think that won’t matter, consider how thoroughly the Armenian genocide is glossed over in history lessons and cultural discourse (especially when compared to the Nazis’ acts in WW2), just because Turkey is seen as one of the few “moderate” Muslim nations with huge strategic importance, and no western nation wants to piss them off.

Sorry to bash on about a big load of news stories but this is a real issue, there’s zero political will to fight it and the majority of our media, entertainment world and various other celebs are still locked in a cosily socialist 1980’s time-warp in which criticism of anything other than white British people is immediately screamed down as being “racist” and (it’s implied) one step away from gas chambers and hanging children on meat-hooks.

That hundreds of real children suffered real and horrendous abuse precisely because of this political wilful-blindness has gone completely unmentioned by the majority of our public figures and entertainers, etc.

Forgive me, Lady Eva. I was not aware of such things in Britain. I spoke my own views, formed through events in my own country. In Canada, we have special interest groups that cry ‘racism’ if any criticism is leveled at them (Pro-Israel groups, Muslim groups, Native groups, etc.) but so far Sharia Law does not trump the laws that govern the rest of us.

Nothing to forgive! :slight_smile:

We’re in a really shitty place right now and the majority of the world doesn’t know, but the threat to the rest of the western world if the UK continues merrily down this route is significant, and especially of interest to magicians who may find that the last few centuries of hard-won freedom are rolled back, just as we’re seeing huge segments of our society rolled back to mediaeval sexual moralities, in which girls with no protective father are fair game for rape and exploitation.

And this has happened, for the most part, since the end of the nineties, a frighteningly fast regression which our political and media elite have consistantly ignored.

All I’m saying is this: Enlightened, do you really think that someone is going to take over the world and stop you from practicing the occult? Hell, I’ll ask a better question: aren’t people already stopping you from practicing the occult? The problem with conspiracy hunting is that you spend time conspiracy hunting. Rather than doing anything to stop the problem from arising, conspiracy theorists consistently focusing solely on how bad things are. Yet and still, the majority of these conspiracies are the same story written in a different way. But what is that going to do to solve anything?

A problem with our society is that we are consistently bound to hero-villain worship. World religions throughout history, both pagan and monotheistic, highlight these dichotomies at length, and for an important reason. As long as we have this dichotomy, we can always blame someone for our problems and rely on someone else to save us from those problems. If we are weak, we can find someone to say, “Hey, you are manipulating me.” Moreover, if someone becomes a figurehead for our ideas of justice, we automatically start marching, rallying, and talking loads of shit about “the good fight.”

Yet and still, they are doing it out of human complacency. If we were not addicted to hero-villain worship, we could not possibly blame any of these terrorists, politicians, or corporations for our problems. Perhaps less than 1% of the world’s population is controlling all this… how can I possibly get mad that they have control when no one is realizing that the numbers heavily favor the oppressed. Not only the numbers, but these guys need people to comply with what they do; it’s irrational to think that they would kill everyone. Who would do their work for them?

Regardless of that, the point is that conspiracy study and involvement in shit that, quite honestly, you don’t have the power to stop… it’s completely against what being a magician is about. Conspiracy study is the quintessential act of hero-villain worship, but that type of mentality is not conducive to magick. How are you honestly going to step in front of a demon commanding some great power of the universe when you are enthralled and enraptured in activities that stem from a mentality that doesn’t take primary accountability for what’s going on in their life? And yes, if you are going to study this shit, then it is your life.

You are likely to betray yourself, if not retard your growth greatly, indulging in human suffering. I mean, what are you going to do about Islamic terrorism today? Jackshit, just like me. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s perfectly fine to not be capable of handling a certain problem. However, considering such, why on Earth would you waste your time indulging on it? You think those people care that you are reading about them on some piece of technology that quite possibly was supplied by their oppressors? No.

So that’s what I mean, and this is something that is a problem for many magicians. Certain qualities you have to work hard to get out of, and many of us are in magick to change ourselves into powerful people. However, that means that many comfortable habits, many of which are embroiled in righteous ideals, gotta hit the bricks. Conspiracy theorizing is embroiled in a consciousness that claims righteousness, but rarely ever actually changes anything, and is stemmed in fear and/or the desire to personify our problems as being caused by someone else.

I’m just saying, what has this done to help you or anyone else save those suffering people? On a magick forum like this, I can say very little. It might help on facebook or twitter, but here…

the1gza, I created a topic on a particular subject of interest. It’s a discussion forum made to discuss topics that more or less relate to the occult and spirituality such as this odd, uncanny coincidence. There is nothing wrong with discussing stuff whether it’s LGBT-related (like last time) or terrorism-related. Heck, you may even see it as entertainment (we need to work, study, practice but also cool down and do something amusing).

I’m concerned by such realities but also (greatly) entertained by such theories. It’s not different than going to a movie or watching a soap opera on a daily basis.

As I’ve already mentioned in prior threads, me discussing here doesn’t mean I ain’t doing anything. By the way, last month, I got a letter from John Baird, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Canada, regarding LGBT rights in Russia, Iran and other countries. It’s a response to a message I sent him last year. I’m very glad he took the time to respond and tell me in details what Canada is doing.

I’ve also done background work on a film called Stonewall. It’s a motion picture by Roland Emmerich on LGBT rights in '69/'70 (coming up next year). I’ve also just yesterday and today corresponded with over 200 people regarding recent terrorism; they got a wrong piece of information and I directed them to a legit source.

And I do take action on a spiritual level; hours of daily chanting, rituals etc. By the way, the 19th Enochian Key can be used to strike down terrorist groups. Without being a member of the JOS, I recommend their Enochian Keys 'cause they’ve been revised for Satanists and all types of dark magicians.

Satanic Enochian Keys

I just like discussing such issues and getting other people’s input. I just got some interesting precisions from Lady Eva on the current state of the United Kingdom.

I knew of its increasing Islamic population and insane number of honour killings (in the thousands), as well as radicals establishing so-called “sharia zones” and beating people up, talk of sharia courts (way out of line) but I now got to the root of the problem.

I can’t even comprehend how could British politicians even consider and entertain the thought of sharia courts in their own country. What if the sharia orders the stoning of any type of “dissolute” person…? Will it be enacted too?

[b]Sharia Law in Britain

Are British Muslims a threat to gay people? Polling on homophobia, sharia law and violence

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[quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:12, topic:4104”]I knew of its increasing Islamic population and insane number of honour killings (in the thousands), as well as radicals establishing so-called “sharia zones” and beating people up, talk of sharia courts (way out of line) but I now got to the root of the problem.

I can’t even comprehend how could British politicians even consider and entertain the thought of sharia courts in their own country. What if the sharia orders the stoning of any type of “dissolute” person…? Will it be enacted too?[/quote]
Not for a while, but what they’re doing IMO is creating a fertile environment in which some communities have special rules applied, and because they’re not challenged on the customs they brought with them, they feel that it’s perfectly okay to keep going with those customs - “A 2006 BBC poll for the Asian network in the UK found that one in ten of the 500 young Asians polled said that they could condone the killing of someone who dishonored their family.” (Source)

Someone usually being, of course, a woman, or occasionally a gay man.

And that was 8 years ago, a long time given the rapid changes in our demographic - the overall increase in “honour crimes” (which include beatings, rape, kidnapping and imprisonment in the home) rose 57% between 2009 and 2010 alone. (Source)

Of course, that’s just the reported ones, or the ones where the body’s found and the person’s ID not sold on.

It’s a big deal and regardless of conspiracy theories, ignoring it - as those children found out - won’t starve it of attention and make it go away.

I’m not usually into talking about politics but the social crackdowns after, for example, the Iranian revolution which dismantled over five decades’ worth of progress in women’s rights in a short period - the age of legal marriages dropped from 18 to just 9 years old, and two years after the revolution, flogging and stoning were reintroduced for crimes like adultery and violation of Islamic dress codes, which demonstrates how rapidly the call to faith supercedes other values.

Even still, unless you are just reading for general entertainment, I don’t see why it is useful to indulge in human suffering if you honestly will not do much active action to change it. These are people who have no clue what it’s like to be human, and yet and still I cannot judge because quite frankly, we live in places that are just as fucked up as these places. Despite all the terror in these countries, The US is still the murder capital of the world. How could I honestly start judging folks who are thousands of miles away from me when, despite all these “advancements”, we still aren’t civil enough to get shit done without shooting each other?

It’s not that I’m turning a blind eye, but rather that my priorities are far closer to home than some shit in the Middle East. Hell, it’s like that for most of us; we’re sitting here just barely managing a great deal of our stuff. Yet, we’re worryin’ about women’s rights in India, or child labor and slavery in Africa… that’s just spreading the attention thin. If I have mastered my immediate dominion, then ok, I might start seeing what I can do about being overseas. But that would also take me knowing the culture, actually empathizing with these people (which is quite different from judging these people, which we do from perspectives that have nothing to do with these people), and then demonstrating to these people that I know what they are all going through. Until then, I can’t say what’s right for them, and sure won’t attempt when I am not in their area.

Girls get wed at 9 in Iran. In America, they got Baby Phat booty shorts for girls below the age of 5 with their parents buying it for them. How can we talk about progress when that shit is going down… that’s why I don’t advocate that shit. We are in no real place to talk about those people when we won’t be equally as stringent with shit in our own backyard. It’s not an Islam problem, it’s a human problem. It’s not a feminist problem, it’s a human problem. It’s not a gay, black, poor, or whatever other group’s problem. It’s a human problem, and so considering that, what are we going to do just giving it attention. I’m not saying deny it, I’m saying learn where to put your attention. It makes no difference to those dead kids, or kids about to die, if I am reading articles from my computer with parts that were mined with their slave labor.

The point of what I posted was to show that “some shit in the Middle East” is now becoming some shit in my own country, my own city, and that wilful chosen blindness allowed that to happen.

It’s one thing to have an opinion on the social and political standards of other nations, another thing when those standards begin to be enforced by default in your own home country.

Those little girls were already from broken homes or troubled backgrounds, and our so-called “caring” professions and law enforcement threw them away to a group of men living in sub-mediaeval mindsets due to the desire to not judge, or even look too closely, at cultures which differ from our own.

And my taxes were paying for it!

The main point I’m making is, don’t assume it can’t happen to you, don’t assume your nation (wherever you live) is beyond this stuff, and do what you think is appropriate, if and when you wish to, because what we think of as progress in terms of rights and freedoms can be overturned by special interest groups and incompetant or malevolent political and economic forces, frighteningly quickly.

And with respect, it’s ridiculous to compare words on clothing that not all parents even approve of, and not all children wear, to the state-wide sanctioning of grown men marrying nine-year old girls, I mean that’s like saying child murder should be legalised because children play with toy guns, there’s just nothing there to connect the two - children are always drawn to the edgier stuff in adult society and want to role-play it, which is why “cops and robbers” is a popular game, and “social worker nurtuing plants” isn’t so much a thing with kids.


It’s a problem because for a long time people didn’t know, or didn’t care that much - that people DO know now, care, etc., surely that’s a sign that the human race is evolving?

We’ve recently had a lot of coverage in the UK that certain 60s, 70s & 80s TV personalities were sexually harassing, and in a few cases raping or molesting, women and girls, and the point has been made (correctly so) that back then, that was more acceptable, so the people who saw it and cringed but didn’t report it weren’t really culpable because that was the culture of the time.

These things are no longer acceptable, however, and while there’s cause to remember we’re trying acts of one generation by standards that are completely different to those of their era, it has to be done if we’re going to move beyond that.

In the UK, rape within marriage was legal until 1991 (providing it wasn’t aggravated with excessive violence) - prior to that, wife beating had been legal, and so on. Arguing that because the human race is dumb and violent means we shouldn’t pay attention to dumb violent acts makes no sense and denies very real changes for the better, which prove that human society isn’t a static thing repeating the same mistakes over and over.

People have more awareness of issues and what was once “the boss with the wandering hands” has now become socially unacceptable criminal assault, and rightly so, but if we want to defend these tenuous steps out of the dark ages, then we need to watch very closely forces within our own societies (by no means all Muslim, that’s just a situation in the UK) who would happily see a return to that kind of culture.

“That couldn’t happen here” was probably on the minds of at least some of the people who denied, misfiled or otherwise failed to follow up on the reports of white girls in carehomes being intentionally targeted for grooming and rape by Pakistani men, and the unwillingness to see and deal with regressive forces just gives then permission to spread.

That’s a British issue and I’m not “campaigning” about it, just using it as an illustration that what most people think of as a reasobaly advanced nation with an excellent welfare set-up can easily be undermined, the rights of at least those 1400+ children completely sidelined, and with relevance to magicians, freedom of speech and practice isn’t something we can now just take for granted forever, and coast along wilfully ignoring anything that might threaten it.

And PS: placing attention on things with the intent of changing them (or changing the course events take), is basic magick - also, the reason people have smoke alarms, thermostats and the multitude of subroutines within a computer that check it’s not spiralling into error, and is the same reason why personal insight is so important.

“Energy goes where attention flows” and it’s down to the mage to decide what energy that is, because if other people are already involved, you can bet their energy and attention are focusing and flowing things the way they want already, and turning away won’t somehow make that stop.

These things are against general law, but as societal functions that still exist… still very much alive. Yes, as a boss you can’t blatantly grope a woman in the office or while walking down the street. However, women gaining advantages based on sexuality from male superiors is as terribly rampant as it has ever been, it’s just is open in certain arenas. No, a male boss or professor can’t say, “I’m going to give this woman a promotion/better grade because she give excellent blowjobs.” However, I not only know men who do that, I know women who have bragged about being the recipient of such favors. It’s not that it was rare to hear something like that either; while in college I heard this situation going down on a weekly basis.

The laws of the land allow for surface-level changes to appear. You can’t treat women a certain way, nor can you treat people of a different skin color a certain way. However, this doesn’t at all reflect whether or not people have evolved or not. Rather, it just shows that people can’t act certain ways, it doesn’t show that there is a remedy to certain issues.

As a politician for instance, you will of course pass legislature that appears to give people what they want: “No discrimination against people based on color, creed, religion, or sex.” So as a hiring institution, you can’t blatantly keep someone from a job based on those things… does this erase the issue though? Does a pass of legislature mean that these companies are no longer sexist, racist, or prejudicial? Absolutely not, they just have to act politically correct.

I know a whole lot of politically correct individuals, folks who don’t use nigger, coon, spick, faggot, or cunt to represent people. However, despite this, they are still racist, sexist, and prejudicial on many levels. However, the worst part of it is that they don’t think they are simply because of being politically correct, which I am not mad at because this politically correct way of acting has become the benchmark for changes that people have to make within themselves, not because they are “forced” to.

So just because something is against the law doesn’t mean human beings are evolved. Hell, child molestation has been against the law for a while in America, and yet we produce some of the most vile child sexual offenders in the world. Hell, we got NAMBLA, or what is known as the North American Man Boy Love Association. Despite all the laws, these crimes happen like wildfire, simply because we have used our ruling system as a benchmark for human progress.

So no, I wouldn’t consider paying attention to these acts as anything but masturbatory (which is entertainment) unless you actually plan on actively taking the shit on. If for anything, you can’t really even get the full story of what happened; who knows what actually happened in Pakistan? I surely don’t, and I wouldn’t trust any media source that I didn’t derive on my own because, well, I didn’t experience it. Everyone has their way of interpreting things, and I can’t act just because some dude I never even met says, “This guy is BAD!”

Moreover, I cannot judge these people because who’s to say I know better. Like I stated before, Westerners denounce folks from the Middle East because of how they act, and yet we sell sexually suggestive clothing to children who just learned how to walk. How can we honestly judge these people with that type of mentality? I’m not saying that those old-era ideals are good, but our new era ideals are the same thing dressed up in a new cloth. When female role models are spending half their time on television 70% naked and shaking their ass, how are we gonna talk about women’s rights to be more than sex objects?

That’s what I am saying here, our attention is far to out there that we can’t even be honest about our own mindsets. We aren’t that much different from these people at all, and it would make sense because the Iranian “them” and the Western “them” are the same people. So we get ideas that because we are modern in our ideals, and because our ideals are championed as being the most progressive that these ideals are actually different or more just. However, they aren’t, and perhaps that doesn’t seem apparent to people. So in that respect, giving my attention to shit that I am not actively working to dissolve… completely worthless. Or perhaps not completely worthless, but it is about as worthwhile as spending 3 hours out of my day on xvideos beatin’ it to hentai porn. I could probably being doing something a lot more productive for at least myself.

[quote=“the1gza, post:17, topic:4104”]If for anything, you can’t really even get the full story of what happened; who knows what actually happened in Pakistan? I surely don’t, and I wouldn’t trust any media source that I didn’t derive on my own because, well, I didn’t experience it. Everyone has their way of interpreting things, and I can’t act just because some dude I never even met says, “This guy is BAD!”

Moreover, I cannot judge these people because who’s to say I know better.[/quote]

Wow, so you seriously think doubting that abuse happened is the way forward? Am I misreading you there - that reports of sixteen years of child abuse, and of it being swept under the carpet despite a lot of complaints and reports by individuals, should really just be doubted by anyone who didn’t personally witness it?

If you do mean that, I just have to plain disagree, and furthermore I can and will judge men who preyed on vulnerable children (and to be clear, those were British care homes in England and paid for by British taxpayers, and not in Pakistan) very harshly, and also judge the people who turned a blind eye to that for sixteen years due to a political ideology, and I can and will do various things available to me, including making choices at the ballot box for local and regional elections, based on what the logical outcome of certain social policies has been in the UK so far, and the price we’re now paying for those choices.

How do you even choose where to place attention, to decide in the first place whether you can make a difference, if you continue to block it out?

And why, if I can ask a slightly more personal question, have you paid so much attention to this thread when you evidently don’t synch with the ideas expressed in it or the topics of concern we’re discussing? :slight_smile:

Aren’t you contradicting your own words by very demonstrably placing attention in this way?

It reminds me of the old RHP argument that “all is as it should be” - often used to shout down anyone who wants to attempt to take action on a situation.

That logic falls apart when you consider that “all is as it should be” includes the fact some people are going to take that action, and people not liking situations or world events cannot, by definition, be somehow “outside the grand plan” whereas the world events in question are not.

Part of embracing the LHP for me was making that choice to reject those RHP concepts that boil down to “This world is fucked, you might as well not bother” and making the leap of faith that my own ethics were paramount, and if feeling myself superior to men who get children addicted to drink and drugs and then gang-rape, torture and intimidate them, makes me somehow outside “enlightenment,” then I don’t want any part of that enlightenment, because from where I stand it looks like horseshit.

I embraced the LHP and shook off life-long clinical depression precisely by deciding I did have the right to judge, to act, to prefer one thing over another; to attempt to acquire power in this life and beyond to shape the world to my will, and not just assume all is as it should be, it’s their karma, etc. So from that POV it may just be an eternal “agree to disagree” thing.

As for the rest, although I personally don’t like a lot of the stuff in the media and would like to see some changes, saying that women who flout their sexuality are holding their sisters back has been pretty much trounced by third-wave feminist thinking, but I didn’t intend to get into discussing politics, or to propose any moral absolutes, I simply posted to demonstrate that what we assume is the inevitable forward march of certain irreversible freedoms can be (and in the UK currently is) being rolled right back, and I posted about these issues in support of the idea that paying attention to attempts to remove any kind of freedom IS necessary, since other people are busily paying attention to furthering their own competing agenda.

'S all. :slight_smile:

Something just happened. An online friend of mine just told me about Austin Artress, a good friend of his that recently got murdered by 4 men who broke into his home at night. He was 20 years old.

He was a marijuana plantation owner. I don’t know how legal was it but he grew weed in his backyard. That attracted thugs who broke into his home and shot him. He’s dead.

Austin Artress

Here’s a link to his vigil:

You see! That friend, months ago, was telling me there ain’t much we could do about tragedies heard in the news etc. And now, tragedy impacted him on a much more personal level!

We’re all interconnected; separation is an illusion.

“Some shit in the Middle East” is also becoming an increasing problem in America. Alton Nolen, a whackjob and recent Muslim convert, just beheaded a female colleague for not converting to Islam. It happened last Monday. He also proceeded to stab another woman until he got shot by the the chief operating officer. He’s however still alive (when he should have died).

Beheader and self-made jihadist Alton Nolen

Oklahoma man beheads woman, stabs 2nd victim during workplace fight day after being fired from job

‘SHARIA LAW IS COMING!!!’: Oklahoma beheading suspect posted photos of decapitation, wrote U.S. is ‘going into flames’ on Facebook

And there’s Ali Muhammad Brown who very recently killed 4 men; 19-year-old college student Brendan Tevlin, 30-year-old Leroy Henderson as well as a gay couple he encountered online; Ahmed Said, 27, and Dwone Anderson-Young, 23. He claims to have done so in order to punish America for lives lost in Iraq and Syria (very ironic considering all the lives terminated by the Islamic State in those countries).

Here’s a picture of late Brendan Tevlin

The self-made jihadist and murderer’s, Ali Muhammad Brown, mug shot

Ali Muhammad Brown has taken responsibility for the June murder of same-sex couple Ahmed Said and Dwone Anderson-Young, as well as two other killings police have labeled ‘executions.’